03-03-2003 22:14									#1
	Drafting for Defense Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm writing this topic for Drafting discussions. I noticed that not a lot of ppl use the "dreaded" Draft buttons. Inputs and comments are always welcome.

First of all I think that Drafting is really is really valuable for huge cities far from capital. After massive conquering in the ancient age, I usually end up with large metropolises stretching from one end of my continent to the other. Rapid population grows easily onwards especially If I have The Great Pyramids. I mean if you have a 8-12 size city that only contributes 1 shield/turn to ur empire, then what is it good for?? By the time Nationalism comes, then it all comes to play.

Drafting there makes a lot of sense. I routinely draft these corrupt cities, since allowing them to grow bigger means unhappinness anyway. Drafting gives me free units to contribute to defense, also often the AI would think that you're stronger because you have more units. I would never ever draft in my core and productive cities, because I would rather have them work tiles instead.

Unhappiness usually is not a problem, since I would have 4-6 luxuries and temples in these corruption cities.

My core cities would proceed to building factories, universities and cathedrals, in the early industrial ages. I usually do no wars during these early periods, and work towards industrial and scientific lead instead. Then when Replacable Parts comes in, I'm usually done with city improvements and I would rebuild Infantries from scratch. Draftees would procede to disbanding to finish up other improvements faster. Upgrading is useless since u'll end up with a draft Infantry with a hefty price tag (without Leo). I would be more inclined to draft new Infantries instead.

Well that's all, any comments??

	04-03-2003 01:03									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I agree with draft-lovers; it saved my civs so many times.. I remember the time I was fighting on 5 different fronts against Egypt, France, India, Greece and Japan; the french seized all my indian cities and broke down allied Rome's defences- if it wasn't for conscript units.. whoa

	04-03-2003 04:32									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The mathematics of drafting in an uncorrupt city:

A veteran rifleman costs 80 shields and has 4HP. A conscript costs 30 food (assuming size 13+ and a granary) and has 2 HP.

veteran: 20 shields per hitpoint
conscript: 15 food per hitpoint + unhappiness

In the industrial age, all shield production is doubled due to factories and power plants. So 15 food is really worth 30 shields. In other words, drafting a rifleman is a bad deal.



The above situation is the worst case, though. With Infantry and MI you get more shield value for the same food. And in cities with corruption, drafting quickly becomes more efficient.

But if you have a huge empire of huge cities, haven't you already won the game? If you still haven't won you need more offensive units, not 2HP defensive ones.

	04-03-2003 04:51									#4
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Dave, while I agree that the given example is kinda bad, it is often useful to draft a little, as long you keep the cities so that they still produce whatever it is they build as fast as if you hadn't drafted, it can be a powerful tool.

It has happened a few times that I build artillery, replaces the city garrisons with drfted units and then use the veterans that was built before the war for an invasion force helped by the artillery. Also, when a city has more population than it has tiles or is going at a deficit in food, then it is also nice to have an option to draft.

Used correctly, I think it is a great tool.

	04-03-2003 07:53									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

If a city is maximum size with maximum food toward its next growth, and if it produces a food surplus, it can grow back to size the turn after you draft from it. You likely lose no production, since the replacement laborer appears before production is calculated (although the new laborer might show up on a less production-oriented tile), and there is no meaningful food loss because the potential food surplus was just going to waste with the city unable to grow. I suspect that you may lose a turn's commerce before the draftee is replaced, but I've never run a test on that.

The thing I don't normally like about having draftees serve in my military is that maintenance costs are just as high as for veterans even though they just have half as many hitpoints. Plus, I'm not all that fond of making my people unhappy as a matter of principle. But I'll use the draft occasionally if I find myself in a tight spot.

Nathan

	04-03-2003 09:15									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Drafting makes alot of sense, its just by that point of the game I find its rarely necessary.

The greatest ability is to get units on demand right now. Have you ever needed more units somewhere, but moved them already or just needed more? Poof, you have a unit now. If you're communist with a goodsized empire you could have 30, 40, or 50 units, now. If you have descent garrisons like someone mentioned before, you can exchange the garrisons for the conscripts. Under communism, if you leave the draftee where you got it, under martial law the draftee should counter just as much unhappiness as he created.

As technology gets better and better, drafting does too.

Is that city gonna fall? ^_^ Might as well hand everyone AKs (or APCs if you have them.)

Besides, I usually have excess happiness, don't you? And usually if you're in a war its going to be won with the weapons available now, not what you're researching unless you're just a single step away, so if its comes to it, you should lower your research rate and pump up the luxuries to counter the unhappiess.

	04-03-2003 16:05									#7
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Keeping research going during one war can often put you in a better position for the next one, or the one after that. And while conscripts can be critical if you're caught on the defensive against a sufficiently powerful foe, conscript defensive units are of far more limited offensive value. Also, while communists can often do well drafting without messing up their happiness situation, a Republic or Democracy has to be more careful lest drafting conspire together with war weariness to cause problems.

	04-03-2003 20:33									#8
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quote: Originally posted by DaveMcW The mathematics of drafting in an uncorrupt city: In the industrial age, all shield production is doubled due to factories and power plants. So 15 food is really worth 30 shields. In other words, drafting a rifleman is a bad deal. The above situation is the worst case, though. With Infantry and MI you get more shield value for the same food. And in cities with corruption, drafting quickly becomes more efficient. But if you have a huge empire of huge cities, haven't you already won the game? If you still haven't won you need more offensive units, not 2HP defensive ones.

I play Huge Monarch Continents Game, so I end up with large empire conquered from early in the game. Culture, Domination are turned off so basically I either have to wait it out for SS or diplo. Waging wars in the other continent is costly and inefficient before Flight. Usually I left off one AI in the continent that became almost as powerful as me. Attacking the civ would be counter-productive if they have Riflemen and I'm only using Cavalry. I prefer to just build up on Factories & Universities and aim for ToE + Hoover to get Industrial advantage.

The 1 shield/turn cities are basically useless. So who cares if they lose production/food?? Sometimes I even want them to starve, since most of the citizens are not of my nationality anyway.

What I do is I draft from here and stack them in my border cities that are close to remaining AI civ in my continent. Once the continent is conquered then it's time for draft disbandings.

	05-03-2003 00:57									#9
	Remove this text

This has probably been asked before: What exactly is the happiness penalty for drafting a citizen? Is it limited to the city that drafted the poor conscript?

Seems to me a reasonable strategy to make use of all those 1 shield cities is to draft a unit in each and then disband it immediately to build something useful.

[edit - embarrassing typos]

Last edited by gunkulator on 05-03-2003 at 01:28

	05-03-2003 03:10									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

yeah happiness penalty is for that city only.

	05-03-2003 04:01									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator ... Seems to me a reasonable strategy to make use of all those 1 shield cities is to draft a unit in each and then disband it immediately to build something useful.

If you disband a city unhappy due to pop-rushing (or drafting I presume), the unhappiness migrates to nearby city/cities. This was in response to this very technique being deemed an exploit.

	05-03-2003 07:42									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I never used drafting, but would have no fear if the situation were precarious. I think the same way about those pesky size 1-3 cities: why not draft?

Anyway; now that I discovered that disbanding conquered enemy cities is like razing them when it comes to reputation I am thinking about drafting as a way of finding a utility for them. At least they produce some gold (wealth) and soldiers.

	05-03-2003 07:52									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You can only draft in size 7+ cities. Also you can only draft your own citizens.

	05-03-2003 08:47									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think you misunderstood what was orginally said. Its not drafting from small cities that's being discussed, its drafting from cities with very low production due to corruption. Which in its self is a smart move, since food is the only resource not subject to corruption.

Unhappiness from corruption makes 1 citizen mad for something like 20 turns.

And its true you can only draft from 7+ size cities, but you can draft from cities with foreigners in them, just so long as you have 7+ of your own citizens in the city. In fact I'm not sure if you need to have 7+ of your own, you only might only need to have some of your own citizens in the city, since the person drafted is always of your nationality.

	06-03-2003 12:26									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I love playing as India (enjoy cultural take overs of weaker cities, nothing better), and I always Draft for Defense. After I've drafted for defense, I send the Conscripts out to near-by mountains - the defense bonus of mountains often gives them easy promotions to regs and vets.

But then, I NEVER start a war, with one exception - I almost always go after the first Civ I come across (usually Japan or China when playing as India).

I played out one game, missed a point victory by one turn to the Persians, but I wiped the Japanese off the map VERY early, and was making inroads into the Chinese empire later in the game.

I've only made it up to Warlord though.

Oh yeah, one more thing, I avoid MPPs at all costs, very rarely enter them unless it's with a Super power who's getting a bit shirty with me.

Yeah, so I bandwagon instead of balancing.

Sue me!

	06-03-2003 14:44									#16
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What's wrong with MPP? I like becoming an ally of weak civs and defend them against chinese and americans

	06-03-2003 15:17									#17
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hi ,

drafting , well it can save a nation but what comes with it is not so funny , ..... unhappy people and no experienced units , ....

only to be used in cases of extreme urgency otherwise its better to build regular units , ....

have a nice day

	06-03-2003 16:38									#18
	Put an end to popups!

I have never tried drafting. 2 healing points is seldom worth it.