20-05-2001 12:17									#1
	Question on the importance of air units and armor on assualt units Increase Your PM Length

Hi there! How heavy should I go with the air units? I am planning to build an air force for my UoP faction, which is besieged on the north by the Peacekeeper (and what is left of Deidre). With the dissolution of the Gaian forces, it seems to be that Lal would go after me within the next 25 turns. Since with my excellent research, I already have the Impact Plasma Rover on the prototype production (and its Arty counterpart) and air power have became available. Should I build some air bases or station the planes in one or two seperate bases? I think I would build a forward Aerospace outpost with some garrison units on it, then use it to spear head my air superiority assualt.

Oh and what is the advantage Choppers have over the jets? I found them lack of fuel compare to the Jets (I had several exploded on me while flying cross strait beach assualt missions in my previous game).

Second question is, when an assualt unit attacks a target, would superior armor help the attacker in anyway or armors are just used for defense attacks? If so, then it would be less important to mount heavy armor onto assualt jets since they always leave the scene before enemy can retailiate.

Hmm, the peace keepers would soon taste my Gatling Needle jets!

Vic

	20-05-2001 16:32									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

When you get air, you'd better have at least missile.

------------------
Solver the "Running Beer" - http://www.aok.20m.com

	20-05-2001 23:37									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Choppers are superb for clearing out ground attackers since they can attack multiple times. That's their key advantage over jets.

Don't bother armoring your jets unless you have some stationed where they may be shelled by enemy arty. In that case, give them minimal shielding so they don't get so pasted. In SMAX, with arty actually capable of dealing out damage, totally unarmored units are really vulnerable.

Good uses for needlejets vs. the AI:

1) Taking out enemy needlejets
2) Taking out enemy warships
3) Patrol duties, to sweep the coast....make sure nobody's trying to land on your shores
4) To cover weak units on their way to do something really nasty (ie - cover a probe team approaching an enemy base with an interceptor....land based units cannot attack the probe)
5) To cover your own weakened field units until they can get back to a repair point.

Good uses for choppers:
1) To kill a LOT of units in a single turn

-=Vel=-

	21-05-2001 00:01									#4
	Support Apolyton

[EDIT: erm... do you mean that it took me 25 minute to write this? Vel posted while I was writign]

Here are the basics, which you could have also found reading the manual, the datalinks, or doing a little testing.

Jets MUST land every other turn.
They can bring ONE attack, regardless of the spare movements they have.
After they attack, they stop aflight. The next turn they must land. If they attack again on their way home, they fall (suicide Jet attack).
Jets can ONLY be attacked by SAM units (Air Superiority special ability).
Any kind of combat unit can be equipped with SAM ability.
Almost no one puts armor on Jets, because of the sheer costs.
If a normal Jet gets attacked by a SAM unit, there is a modifier which gives the attacker a great advantage, thus the affordable armor is almost useless anyway.
If a SAM Jet gets attacked by a SAM air unit, it defends with his *weapon*, not with his armor (air dogfight?).
SAM Jets are thus the election unit for air coverage of ground units on the field.
Air SAM units have tho a penalty for ground strike.

Copters can bring as many attacks as they have movement points left!
Copters can be attacked by *any unit*, SAM is not required.
Copters have indeed MORE fuel than Jets. They consume 30% of their health for each turn they end outside a base/airbase. This would allow them to return in base only every 4th turn instead of every other like jets. Catch is, if they get damaged in combat, they reduce their healt, thus their range. They can bring multiple attacks, but if you can't mak'em safely land, make sure they end their last combat with more than 30% health left!
As they're more vulnerable when left in the open, you might consider adding armor to Copters makes more sense than with jets anyway. But you'd probably find out it's not worth the cost.

There are few more tiny technicalities about flight & combat, up to you to find out.
[This message has been edited by MariOne (edited May 20, 2001).]

	21-05-2001 01:07									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Thanks all for the replies!

Now most of my forces are made up by the needle jets since I am a heavy builder -> since they can be stationed in one base but cover a great wide range of area, making them johnny on the spot of the entire theater of conflict. I am slowly converting half of my bases for military use. The current goal is to let the air force wipe out Lal's headquarter within the next few turns. Yang beat the heck out of Santiago (one base left) on the other continent while I am busy moving another portion of my air force there to reinforce the last Spartan base while dealing damage to the incoming invasion forces (Yang must have sent 50 units at least, and currently he has 30 bases including the captured Spartan ones). Lal would be crushed, but Yang can only be slowed since I only have three staging bases along the Yang/Spartan coast with only 4 jets (however they are with chaos while Yang has just gotten impact stuff). Hmm... I think I can do it.

That is the downside of being two or three generations ahead of everyone else.... they all hate ya
[This message has been edited by icevic (edited May 20, 2001).]

	22-05-2001 04:48									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Earwicker quote: Originally posted by Solver on 05-20-2001 07:32 AM When you get air, you'd better have at least missile. Synthetic fossil fuels a precursor tech to D:AP, so you should be prototyping a missile needlejet. Air complexes also make a huge difference to get the morale attack bonuses.

Yeah, I already got Chaos weapon before fielding the jets.

With my superior air force of 30 clean traied chaos jet, I conquered Lal's 20 bases with ease.

Time to move onto Yang, who has been building Missile jets like crazy (I destroyed 10 in one turn and five more reinforced his coastal base). I am planning to repeat the same tactic used against Lal by shipping a cruiser load of garrison units to his base and use air power to clear out a radius of hostile units. Basicly, clean the land with air swarms and walk a defender into each base.

Vic

	22-05-2001 05:52									#8
	Build some copters! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Icevic,

I usually only build a few needlejets, as I think they are the least useful of the air units. Instead I build Fighters (needle jets with air to air ability) and helicopters. The helicopters are my bomber force, and the fighters protect me from enemy air units. Helicopters are extremely powerful attackers. They can make as many attacks as they have movement for, and when they are attacking weak units (probe teams, crawlers and formers) or have a significant weapon advantage they can pretty well clean up a sector in one turn. I never built copters when I first started playing because IRL, they are less powerful than their fixed wing counterparts. I finally came around and actually tested them, and now I build them in large numbers.

	22-05-2001 07:20									#9
	Re: Build some copters! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sikander Icevic, I usually only build a few needlejets, as I think they are the least useful of the air units. Instead I build Fighters (needle jets with air to air ability) and helicopters. The helicopters are my bomber force, and the fighters protect me from enemy air units. Helicopters are extremely powerful attackers. They can make as many attacks as they have movement for, and when they are attacking weak units (probe teams, crawlers and formers) or have a significant weapon advantage they can pretty well clean up a sector in one turn. I never built copters when I first started playing because IRL, they are less powerful than their fixed wing counterparts. I finally came around and actually tested them, and now I build them in large numbers.

Good point. I am not sure if I already got the tech to build choppers or not... got the Neural Grafting alright, but let me check. Hmm, time to test some superior chopper power.

Vic

	22-05-2001 12:20									#10
	Re: Question on the importance of air units and armor on assualt units Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by icevic I already have the Impact Plasma Rover on the prototype production

If you're really prototyping a 4-3-2, you're wasting a lot of minerals because of the 50% additional cost of prototypes. That is, unless you're playing with the 2 lowest difficulty settings, you are the Spartans or you have skunkworks in the base.

As mentioned above, why bother with gatling jets ? Missile is available, and costs the same IIRC...

Aredhran

	22-05-2001 16:58									#11
	Suffering from ads?

One comment to the player that had chaos and clean for their initial airpower. If you can do that and build a clean airforce from the start, more power to you BUT that means that you researched a whole bunch more techs before you went back to airpower. I'm only new to MP but in those games I am finding that you better beeline to D: AP to be safe. IF you spend time going for chaos or clean someone else is likely able to roast you by getting to jets first. (and once jets are patrolling it gets a whole lot tougher to steal tech)

Another thing I notice is that everyone seems to want the elite best-best unit. Don't get me wrong I love these too but often will find myself building lower cost units . For example, I am building impact interceptors since no one is armouring their planes. I am building some impact needlejets since they are so darn cheap and an impact chopper can plink a whole bunch of crawlers or formers before suicide attacking a strong unit. These units are cheap and often you can have even your lesser bases producing 1 a turn. I leave the better units to crack the tough defenders but impact weapons are sufficient for a whole lot of purposes for a good chunk of the game.

	23-05-2001 05:14									#12
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I have gotten into the habit of building my needlejets and attack choppers with Clean, Deep Radar abilities once I get the appropriate techs, but I am lately wondering whether I should just consider them to be disposable units and not jazz them up at all.

The issue for me is the upgrading cost, which seems to have a special ability surcharge each time you upgrade. It doesn't seem to be handled the same as the various weapons and armor, where the upgrade is minimal if you are not changing much. I notice it when reactors change - an enhanced needlejet is much more expensive to upgrade than one with no special abilities (i.e. when all that is changing is the reactor).

This probably holds true for other units also, I just notice it more on needlejets because their basic levels are so cheap. After a certain point it isn't worth it to me to upgrade line units unless there's an emergency or I have that SP that gives you a 50% discount.

It seems to me that the special abilities are like accessories that shouldn't have to be upgraded each time you upgrade the weapons and/or armor, so the upgrade cost should be the same as upgrading the basic unit.

	23-05-2001 05:29									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by johndmuller I have gotten into the habit of building my needlejets and attack choppers with Clean, Deep Radar abilities once I get the appropriate techs, but I am lately wondering whether I should just consider them to be disposable units and not jazz them up at all. .

Currently with Children's Creche + Command Nexus + Bio Enhancement Center + AeroSpace Complex I am able to produce elite units from the start (no morale penalties since I am playing as the University).

If you have the above facilities, you should be able to fly those planes home, start building the new model, disband the old one, then the mineral will go to the current model production.

Vic