04-03-2003 12:39									#1
	Micromanagement - Zones, Regions Support Apolyton

I cannot help myself using as much micromanagement as possible. I switched off every AI messing around.

I found in the documentation that there can be only two zones in every region. The gravity and the "sweet point"-ness and some other planet properties influences the level of products I got from the zones. Okay.

For Bioharvest I found on the Internet (not in documentation!) a nice list of food harvesting capability. You can get less from Barren, Toxic, Hostile than from Alluvial and fertile. That's okay.

I found in the documentation that I can mine more in the mountains and less in the plains (for some races vice versa).

But... What is the best for a Military zone?

In which region should I build an Industry or Research zone?

Which regions Government prospers or suffers?

When I colonize a planet, tha AI starts up with an Industry zone. When it is built, only then are starting other zones.

On the finance screen I found that I can allocate money for planets. Is there any way to allocate money to just one planet?

I found out that my nasty vicegotohell build Hydrophonic farm automatically under a Bioharvest zone. I think that I can not control that, am I wrong?

There are different prices for Bioharvest zone and Research zone. Is this price somehow related to my planet richness, gravity etc.?

I found that I have less food than needed on some planets. I read the doc that freighters are carrying the food around. Where can I see those freighters?

If I have a planet full of zones, is it a good idea to rezone them? I have a planet with 78 food, 34 needed and I would like to invest more in research.

Thank you for any answer!

off: The documentation of the game is outrageous. I can not imagine how they dare to publish such a crap for the best game around.

ps: Oh yeah, and how can I control my frustration level with the game?

	04-03-2003 12:49									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The food, minerals etc is shipped automatically to meet internal demand. Surplus is, I believe, sold for cash. So before you reduce your food output to build something else, make sure that this planet isn't providing food for another.
You cannot control what the Vicegotohell builds in each DEA. But don't worry about it, ever improvement is just that.

And the frustration... I reccommend biting nails, gnawing wood, or smoking (tobacco, of course)

-Jam

	04-03-2003 15:00									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm using http://www.orionsector.com/pages/dd/datadumps.shtml page for info abouf effectiveness of Zones etc.

1) But... What is the best for a Military zone?
In which region should I build an Industry or Research zone?

Some specials in region affect effectivity of Zones. (readme.txt). Not sure about Government/Military...

I think so - on Rich planet you need Mountains (and maybe Broken) for Mining - so build other buildings on Plains. If you have Fertile plain - build food there, other buildings in mountains. It's the only suggestion i have.

2) I found out that my nasty vicegotohell build Hydrophonic farm automatically under a Bioharvest zone. I think that I can not control that, am I wrong?

Hm. IFAIK no. Is it somehow hinder you?

3) If I have a planet full of zones, is it a good idea to rezone them? I have a planet with 78 food, 34 needed and I would like to invest more in research.

Why not? I set zones myself for all planets. But i'ts only 210 turn now, it's my first game, i playing ~24 hours. So i think if you want to do it fast, you can create some templates (i mean not in-game) - say, all alluvial+ plains -> bioharvest, rich(planet)+ mountains -> Mining, 1 Recreation/planet (hm not sure about this i have 1 Government/planet now), 4 Industry (you need money to spend on research, so you need some source of money. Because of bug with 1 spaceport enchancement it don't give you as much money as it's supposed to be) + All Industry planets for Fleet building (easier to control some industry planets than all planets, fleet becomes obsolete too fast).

So, with template, you don't need too much time for zoning (in Singleplayer game, Multiplayer is another matter of course).

4) ps: Oh yeah, and how can I control my frustration level with the game?

Yes, but governors set slider back anyway. So don't bother trying

Last edited by Ellestar on 04-03-2003 at 19:32

	04-03-2003 15:22									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: 4) ps: Oh yeah, and how can I control my frustration level with the game? Yes, but governors set slider back anyway. So don't bother trying

I think I missed the frustration level slider.

-Jam

	04-03-2003 19:29									#5
	Put an end to popups!

My (unproven) strategy for zoning:

I let the AI do the zoning early in the game. It builds an industry and mine in fairly obvious places. I go back and 'plan' all the zoning at the same time, focusing on what the game calls 'natural' construction - the very rich worlds have mostly mines and the poor worlds either have bioharvest (if good enviro) or research (if poor enviro).

Where to build...that depends. Some zones can support higher population, which for may of the DEA structures increases effectiveness. A high pop research has better research than a low pop research. I do not think that recreation, military, or government is affected by zone, but I have not really looked into it....they usually just get the zone that is not good for mining or harvest.

Regarding the automatic building of hydroponics (and spaceports, etc.) I think the manual actually says something about them being automatic. I do not think they cost anything, once built, so they are harmless. The only problem is you cannot prioritize the order of these structures (e.g. build automatic mine before a hydroponic). But, minor issue.

The freighters are invisible and plentiful. Thank God.

Don't know about the price of the buildings..never paid attention to them.

Rezoning: I usually end up rezoning...depending on your race, technology will give you huge boosts to certain productions. Usually, my food production goes through the roof and I rezone (destroying the hydroponic farms ) some bioharvest to build industry or research. Also, I often specialize a large, poor world to an industrial giant (getting minerals from off-world).

	05-03-2003 13:53									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by War of Art You cannot control what the Vicegotohell builds in each DEA. But don't worry about it, ever improvement is just that. And the frustration... I reccommend biting nails, gnawing wood, or smoking (tobacco, of course) -Jam

The problem with that is that you are not able to control in which zone a specific improvement should be built.
Example: I would like to build an improvement first in my Alluvial/Bioharvest Zone on my main planet, rather than in an Arable one. The advantage is obvious: more food from a fertile zone with improvement than from a barren one with improvement.

And shame, but no doc how does it work with the AI. In my opinion this kind of behaviour is not an AI. Better definition would be AO:Artificial Obstacle

Thanks for the tip on frustration.

	05-03-2003 14:02									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ellestar I'm using http://www.orionsector.com/pages/dd/datadumps.shtml page for info abouf effectiveness of Zones etc.

I checked the page and browsed through the information there. I got the impression that they merged the info from non or half-official sources. The page is very good but after an hour I found that it does not provide the solid, concrete info I'd need. Nonetheless thank you very much for the tip.

quote: Originally posted by Ellestar Some specials in region affect effectivity of Zones. (readme.txt). Not sure about Government/Military...

I thought maybe a Toxic Mountain is better for soldier training - just a guess.

quote: Originally posted by Ellestar 2) I found out that my nasty vicegotohell build Hydrophonic farm automatically under a Bioharvest zone. I think that I can not control that, am I wrong? Hm. IFAIK no. Is it somehow hinder you?

Yes, as I mentioned in my previous post, the AO hinders me building the structures where I'd really need it. Besides I found no information about what that Viceinhell is going to plan next.

	05-03-2003 14:02									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yes if you want particulare DEA, you have to work like a dog to get the AI to build it, including scap an existing one.

	05-03-2003 14:03									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah, in many cases the game turns into a battle with your assistant AI, not the enemies :-) Anyway the AI is necessary when you starting to gain lots of planets. Then you must outwith your AI in a more global way :-) Like making all designs except one obsolete for example, specializing a few planets in industry and micromanaging only them, and so on ....

	05-03-2003 14:04									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by War of Art I think I missed the frustration level slider. -Jam

It was in the postscrip (ps), It was intended to be a joke

	05-03-2003 14:09									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yes if you want particulare DEA, you have to work like a dog to get the AI to build it, including scap an existing one.

I am very much worried about my future in MOO3 indeed. My Vicerabbits are building up on some planet many Bioharvest DEA-s and additional structures. Later on the game I'd like to change it to a research DEA. In this case all my previous improvements have been lost. If I change it back to Bioharvest DEA then it starts building from the very beginning.

Scrapping is not really a problem, because with switched off AO (Artificial Obstacle) you can manage the happenings.

	05-03-2003 14:17									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by TrainWreck20 My (unproven) strategy for zoning: I let the AI do the zoning early in the game. It builds an industry and mine in fairly obvious places.

Yep, I caught my AO building mines in a fertile mountain with barren plains in other zones....

quote: Originally posted by TrainWreck20 The freighters are invisible and plentiful. Thank God.

Can you check how many of them are actually used? I found on the abovementioned orion link a freighter evaluation table. You need more freighter for the other solar system than for the planets in the same system.

So there must be a limitation in the freighter ship number. Or are they infinite in number?

	05-03-2003 20:39									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I think that the population is divided into regions; Some are populated and some are not, though this is invisible for the player. You cannot build in the unpopulated regions, and the DEAs in low-populated regions will produce less. Like the planets, some of the regions may be most desirable and will be settled first ....

	05-03-2003 23:38									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I think the freighters are unlimited, but I am not sure. The fact that they cannot be produced would lead me to think that, anyway. Have not found a limit yet.....

Regarding the DEAs: There may be more than just basic terrain type and fertility to think about. A fertile mountain vs. the barren plain mentioned above....which is better for a bioharvest? Which for a mine? Since population is a factor in productivity, and some structured require more population, there could be some interaction such as:

A Bioharvest in the fertile mountain my produce more per population unit (than the barren plain), but may not be able to fully 'staff' the bioharvest in the mountains. If built in the plains, the bioharvest produces less per population working, but may be able to staff up completely and produce more in the end.....

And conversely for the mine, which need less in the way of workers....a mine built in the plains may 'waste' the population that cannot be employeed at the mine.

Mind you, I have not tested any of this, but I think that is how it works

	06-03-2003 22:04									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

About population in zones of planet.
DEA Productivity form population is equal on all planet (this is easy to check). So, in each DEA (+ additional buildings) working DEARequirmentPopulation*PlanetPopulation/SumDEARequirmentPopulation. Then in each region lives Sum of up to 2 DEARequirmentPopulation (if any). It's logical assumption.

Regarding the automatic building of hydroponics (and spaceports, etc.) I think the manual actually says something about them being automatic. I do not think they cost anything, once built, so they are harmless.

1) Production Points to build
2) Maintenance cost - AU

Buildings: 5% of initial PP cost, translated into AUs (so if the building cost 100 PPs, maintenance would be 5 AUs per turn).
(readme.txt -> 11: GAMEPLAY EXPLANATIONS/CLARIFICATIONS -> MAINTENANCE COSTS)

So there must be a limitation in the freighter ship number. Or are they infinite in number?

At the beginning of each turn, every civilization has its FreighterPool computed. The number of freighters generated by each region is calculated,and the sum of their values equals the Freighter Pool for that civilization that turn... and some calculations...
http://www.orionsector.com/pages/dd/dd-freighters.shtml -> 'Creating the Freighter Pool'