04-03-2003 20:33									#1
	Free base facilities? Increase Your PM Length

Recently, while reviewing my tech tree I noticed that I have indicated that you get a free base facility upon researching the following techs:

Sentient Econometrics (E11)
I: Free Recreation Commons

Quantum Machinery (B12)
I: Free energy bank

Self-Aware Machines (D11)
I: Free Network Node

I got these from the Prima strategy guide for SMAC. Under these techs the book categorizes these as an "infrastructure" benefit for the tech (hence the reason I used "I" to categorize the benefit on my tech tree).

Through gameplay and testing using the Scenario editor, I have never been able to confirm that you get these free facilities upon researching the tech. Does anyone know if you get these facilities in some way once the tech is researched? Perhaps you get ONE free facility? Perhaps this applied to an older version of the game? or was there in a Beta version of SMAC when Prima was writing the strategy guide?

Please no comments about how poor Prima "strategy" guides are - I am simply interested in determining whether this feature exists in the game or not.

	04-03-2003 21:13									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It does not.

	04-03-2003 22:56									#3
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I thought free in those cases referred to paying maintenance on existing facilities but have never checked this. Any game in which I happened to reach these high level techs is usually easily won and a couple of hundred ecs here or there seem irrelevant

	05-03-2003 02:58									#4
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Try getting to that tech level, and then building a new base with a cp. Maybe those facilities will automatically appear.

	05-03-2003 03:12									#5
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I seriously doubt that it will be the case, as there is already a known mechanism for denoting free base facilities, namely greyed out facility name on the base display, with an asterisk if you have a normally built facility in addtion. Yang players who conquer bases with perimeter defenses intact will know what I'm talking about. Prima was smoking crack when they came up with that one.

	05-03-2003 06:13									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

alpha.txt makes it pretty clear:

quote: ; Free = No longer supported.

Free facilities with a tech was something planned that was never implemented in the game. SMACX has an alternate version of it as a specific faction bonus.

Edit: Typo

	05-03-2003 16:02									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I can remember some times in late-game when building a new base and started construction of e.g. Recycling Tanks then when I discovered some new tech (can't remember which one) the next turn during upkeep it said "recycling tanks are already in place" and the word "completed" flashed in the minerals box.
But maybe I entered recycling tanks twice in the building queue, i guess it was the latter (taking the list from Nethog into account).
This also happens on occasion for netNodes, but I guess when building a base in late-game I am a little bit overzealous with the queue function

	05-03-2003 19:44									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thanks Static23. Also note that the same note "Free = No longer supported" appears in alphax.txt as well, so it does not apply to Alien Crossfire either. I will update my tech trees and remove the notes about free facilities.

	05-03-2003 20:25									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

So ultimately is this feature something that you can mod and turn back ON, or is it forevermore to be deactivated?

	05-03-2003 22:00									#10
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I would guess it to be the latter...seems that's what is indincated by the not supported text...much like energy and projectile weapons in the original design

	06-03-2003 01:32									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

It would be too easy getting those facilities in that way

	07-03-2003 06:30									#12
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The Prima guide saying they're "free" is not the best choice of wording, and the line in alpha(x).txt that says "Free = no longer supported" does refer to a valid feature.

It does not mean you get those facilities free at new bases founded after obtaining the tech. You still have to expend Minerals to build them.

What it does mean is you no longer have the €-per-turn maintenance (support) costs for those specific facilities already in existence before you got the tech, and also will pay none for those built after.
Simply put, they don't cost you any Energy after you research the tech — making them "free" or "support-free".

To see the effect, look in the {F3} screen at the list of facilities. There will be no cost associated with those facilities after the necessary tech is researched.

Edited three times. It's correct now.

Last edited by gwillybj on 07-03-2003 at 07:07

	07-03-2003 07:19									#13
	Put an end to popups!

gwillybj, are you saying that the effect is actually enabled for SMACx?

	07-03-2003 08:14									#14
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gwillybj, I just finished using the scenerio editor for both SMAC and SMAX to see what the effect of the 3 high-level techs I identified above have on rec commons, net node, and energy bank maintenance costs and I do NOT see any any effect - i.e. they continue to cost 1ec each after the techs are discovered or if these new faciltiies are built AFTER the techs are discovered.

My test save game files for anyone that is interested:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pmm1/games/test.SAV

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pmm1/games/testX.SAV

	07-03-2003 08:40									#15
	I am so sorry. Remove this text

To NetHog and everyone else here at Apolyton:

I was wrong.

I'm not a total idiot, but apparently I play one at Apolyton sometimes. I'm usually so good, but today I am very bad.

I just looked into my current well-advanced SMAC game and found that everything I wrote is absolutely and completely false.

I truly have no excuse . I can't even think why I was so utterly positive of all of that while I was composing it . It was all so clear and solid in my mind . Too bad, too; it sounded so right.

If anyone is looking for me, I'm over in the corner wearing the big pointed hat — you know, the one that says DUNCE!

Please forget I ever wrote that post, when next I try to help someone.

On this side is gwillybj --> <-- On this side is everyone at Apolyton.

	07-03-2003 09:44									#16
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gwillybj, don't be so hard on yourself. The game has so many inter-related parameters it is easy to incorrectly assume the root cause for any given effect. Even after my testing I did not conclude that that you were wrong - I half expected someone to say something like, yea but if you research ALL of the techs leading up to Quantum Machinery, then Energy Banks DO have zero maintenance. After playing Civ/Smac/other 4X games for so many years I have learned one thing about these kind of games - NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!!

	07-03-2003 10:21									#17
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"It's not what you don't know that hurts you...it's what you know that just ain't so!" - Mark Twain

	07-03-2003 10:48									#18
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So... in short this thread doesn't exist and the idea never came/will come to anyone to investigate this unused feature?

We should all go home because there's "nothing to see here"?

	07-03-2003 20:22									#19
	Put an end to popups!

You know what's fun? Using a faction that gets free Pressure Domes at new colonies, then just expand, lots, focussing on industrial growth in your central colonies. When the other factions start doling out ecodamage, sea levels will rise - offing them and keeping you safe.

"drown, earthdiedre! planet needs earthlaughter"

	07-03-2003 21:27									#20
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt So... in short this thread doesn't exist and the idea never came/will come to anyone to investigate this unused feature? We should all go home because there's "nothing to see here"?

MrWhereItsAt, "Ignorance is bliss"

	07-03-2003 23:07									#21
	Put an end to popups!

When I first glanced at gwillybj 's post, my first impression was that I was looking at some expressionist poem.

	08-03-2003 03:05									#22
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quote: Originally posted by gwillybj The Prima guide saying they're "free" is not the best choice of wording, and the line in alpha(x).txt that says "Free = no longer supported" does refer to a valid feature.

I've found that Prima strategy guides are notoriously incorrect, and expensive and useless additions to your game manual shelf.

	08-03-2003 07:43									#23
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Virtual beers all around. Nehi's for those underage or in AA (or, like me, taking prescribed psychiatric pharmeceuticals).

Nethog: Thank you for the kind words. That was such a glaring error I couldn't let it go. A good example of what not to do: Post before proofing the facts.

Mongoose: Shall I get that tattoo'd on my forehead? Maybe I'll print it out in large type and hang it above my monitor.

Maniac: If I had expressed what I was really feeling, it would have been far from poetic, and likely contained several "****" instead of smilies

Static23: True. Prima guides are frequently incorrect (sometimes I wonder if they're based an a beta and then not proofed before publishing), definitely expensive ($19.99 is a bit much for a re-hash of the manual – I got mine for $4.98 at a discount bookstore a couple of years ago), but imho not entirely useless. In this case, the font size in the SMAC Manual is a bit small for me to read comfortably, and the layout of the Guide is easier to navigate. I just have to remember to ignore the errors

MrWhereItsAt: What thread

Last edited by gwillybj on 08-03-2003 at 08:19

	08-03-2003 08:23									#24
	Re: I Love You Guys Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by gwillybj Static23: True. Prima guides are frequently incorrect (sometimes I wonder if they're based an a beta and then not proofed before publishing), definitely expensive ($19.99 is a bit much for a re-hash of the manual – I got mine for $4.98 at a discount bookstore a couple of years ago), but imho not entirely useless. In this case, the font size in the SMAC Manual is a bit small for me to read comfortably, and the layout of the Guide is easier to navigate. I just have to remember to ignore the errors

They're definitely written before game completion so they can come out shortly after release. Maybe "useless" is a bit harsh, but they are way overpriced for being expanded copies of the manual.