04-03-2003 21:58									#1
	MOO3 Files Directory - Links and Discussion Increase the size of your Attachments

Link to the Apolyton Directory category for MOO3 Files
http://apolyton.net/dir/index.php?cat=286&t=sub_pages

Link to our Upload service
http://apolyton.net/upload

The use of the above:
1) Upload your file
2) Post a thread about it in this forum
3) Submit an entry in the Directory by going to the first link and then clicking on "Add Link"


Another issue: which should be the subcategories of the moo3 files category??

	05-03-2003 21:38									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

Hmmmm, I used the link to go to the files dir. Seems a little bit moshed to me. If I knew what files to ask for I'd be able to do it, but since I don't even know what's there how can I get a LIST?

	06-03-2003 15:08									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

the moo3 file directory doesnt have any files yet cause the mod creators are currently too bored to add their files into it

	10-03-2003 04:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I just submitted a Mod to be added to the Moo3 directory. So now you can't say we are too bored to even bother.

	10-03-2003 15:50									#5
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http://apolyton.net/dir/index.php?i...ts=3980&cat=286

	22-01-2004 00:07									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hi,

Funny, every time I come here I only see this same discussion going on.

I've done several jobs in my lifetime. As a design engineer (civil, not software) I learned that schedules and budgets could generally be met as long as there weren't any major screwups. Generally most people who've done the work know roughly how to estimate how much a new project will take. So as long as you don't have a major screwup, you'll be somewhere like plus/minus five percent or ten percent or so. The manager types will go nuts over that, but it really isn't a big deal in terms of a successful project/design getting done.

But when there's a major screw up, by which I mean something where a large part of the project has to be reworked, that's when your schedules and budgets are blown all to hades.

Since those days, I've moved over to being a manager of software projects.

One reason I read these forums occaisionally is of course because I like this genre of games and I keep hoping I'll log in out here and there will be good enough MODs and Patches to make this a fun game. 1.2.5 with the mod I downloaded awhile back is close, but the game itself still has a few major holes.

But the other reason I like reading these forums is as a software manager, this makes a wonderful case study of just how to completely screw up a project. So hopefully by reading these threads I can learn how not to screw up my own projects this badly.

This project seems to have been screwed up completely early on. It appears that Atari and QS weren't really in agreement on what they wanted from the game. And from my own point of view as a player of these games, Atari appears to have been pushing for marketing buzz-word type features that detract from the game itself. And apparently Atari and QS didn't resolve these differences when they needed to, thus leading to Atari rejecting and demanding major reworks of what QS presented.

Its funny to me, because as someone who's played games back to the board game days, and who's played this genre of computer games back to Civ1 and Moo1, this game in someways went completely the wrong direction. I'm someone who doesn't really give a wit about fancy graphics and sounds. And I could care less about having a real-time combat system (obviously "real-time" was a buzz word Atari was pushing).

Personally, if it was me doing this project, I'd start with a really ugly game graphical wise, but which was very strong on game engine and mechanics. That's what I want out of one of these games. A strong game engine that produces results form decisions that feel right. And which also is strong enough to allow multiple types of strategies to have a chance to win.

For a game this complex and big, and one thing I like about MOO3 is the big sandbox you can play in, you do need a sharp interface. Again, graphically I don't care if its all fancy and sci-fi looking, but when my brain says I want to do something, I want to be able to easily do it.

And reporting is key. That's one place MOO3 seems to fall down. When managing and empire this large, I need good reporting tools. Manually clicking on planet to planet just don't cut it.

To me the combat system completely blew its role in the game. If I'm the emperor or fleet admiral of an empire in a game, I can deal with the fact that I'm not going to be controlling the detailed actions of every frigate in the fleet. But I should be getting detailed reports and analysis of a battle. Maybe its incomplete if all my ships get destroyed, but if even one ship gets away, and maybe I design one ship just for that, then everything that happened in the battle prior to that ship escaping should be a computer dump my staff can analyze. Then I should be able to find out info that tells me why I won or lost the battle, and how I can change my ship designs, task force configurations, fleet tactical orders etc to correct that.

This bit where I watch dots move on the screen, once and once only, then try to figure what just happened completely blows. And produces a major hole in the game.

So in general, I've got a general complaint with most strategy games that there's too much focus on graphics, sound, animation, real-time battles etc. But most of the time the underlying game at least works, after a few patches. But this time they blew that.

Then since they blew the original design goals, budgets and schedules, they released a crappy bug-ridden game, which gave the game a really bad-rep. Then since they'd already lost money, they only did the bare minimum of patches to get it up to a game that is passable but still not good.

What amazes me is that they owned one of the really strong brand names in gaming. So to me, it seems like it would have been worth the effort to get this game up to speed. A strong release of a patch that makes a really good game would have gotten good press around the internet. If there were lots of stories about "It took a year, but now MOO3 is really worth playing", then they would have seen a bump in sales. Plus they'd probably would have had to had a way to created an "expansion pack" that capitalized on that. But that combination would have worked.

Now I hope that either a) they sell the rights to this game to someone who can do a proper MOO4. Or b) since I really don't care what the name is, that someone out there will do a 4x space game that takes the good ideas that MOO3 had and turns them into a fun playable game.

Until then, SMAC stays on my computer.

	16-02-2004 22:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

What dose this mode do?

	24-04-2004 08:22									#8
	Support Apolyton

I agree with Marc420 100%!! In fact, I'd have to say that the one game (I still wish I could find a copy of) is so old that it used ASCII characters for it's graphics. I was even running it on an 8086 (before 286 machines, for those that don't know)...... So what was it called?? Anacreon ... Yep!! Maybe the first, or almost the first, 4X space game I knew of.... As things really are in any of today's game programs, it was totally a numbers game... One set of numbers for tech levels, another for fleet sizes, and so on... That sort of thing, along with basic graphics, basic interface, and a decent randomizing sub-program is all you really need... Everything else is the fluff that makes the game unique from one sort of tweak to another....

So... Then there's when MOO1 and later MOO2 came out... They did all that fluffing just right. With MOO3, I think some of their problems came with trying to add too many of those tweaks and to really turn up the bells and whistles value too much... Too many features with no easy way to access many of them hurts... If you have to go through any more than 3 windows/screens to get to the deepest layers of the kind of info you want or need, that's too many, especially if the graphics are causing your system to slow down...

MOO3 really shows a good deal of promiss in patching, as long as they don't drop the game as a lost cause... Being "playable", while still too rough to be truely good, is still a good start or base to build on... Or, if they feel too many bad things have happened to it, they should at least create a tool for everyone to be able to download which can edit all the fun parts of the game or even do some creating... It would be nice to be able to edit the tech trees for all the races, create new techs entirely, or create/edit the races. Then there could be even more fun if there were easy ways to put in some of your own race portraits, ship graphics, and so on to add to the immagination so many people have....

In fact, one of the most disapointing things I saw in MOO3 is that they took out so many things I got too used to seeing or having in MOO2... Such as, where did all those galactic monsters go?? What happened to stargate technology or some of the other technologies that were apparently lost?? What happened to diplomacy in that you can be very allied to a race that suddenly decides (for no good reason) to blow the crap out of you?? Why do spies (even in the 1.2.5 version) suck so badly (too long to train and die too fast or easy for example)??

Now.... Off to wonder how many would like to add to that....

	20-09-2005 13:10									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Who do I have to ask if I want a file to be uploaded?

EDIT: Ok, got it - first post...

Last edited by Laryllan on 21-09-2005 at 13:01