05-03-2003 00:11									#1
	Where the #@$% are my troops?!? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If I invade a planet and fight to a draw, where do my troops go? I never get the option to continue my fight. I had a battle with about 400 units on my side and 200 on the defending world. I couldn't kill them fast enough to take the planet on one turn but it told me the fighting would continue the next turn. I had between 250-300 troops left; he had less than 100. The next turn rolls around and I don't get to fight. I check the planet and it's still the enemies. WTF!

	05-03-2003 00:30									#2
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I had similar problem i my game. I think you need fleet and attack same planet (choose 'assault planet'), or you don't get ground battle screen.

	05-03-2003 02:04									#3
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I did attack on the next turn. I was successful without a fight, then the Ground screen comes up and flickers a bit then I'm sitting at the galaxy map.

	05-03-2003 03:44									#4
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I had the same thing and chose to attack planet and then ground combat and finally they lost all of their units and I got the planet.
So it would seem that when it says it will continue, it means only if you elect to attack again next turn.

	05-03-2003 21:09									#5
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I think I may have found a reason why it didn't work. I was engaged in a lengthy combat sequence and didn't win outright but for the first time I took some DEAs, two if memory serves. The next turn I was able to fight again. I wonder if you are unable to attain a DEA your combat troops have nowhere to go and perish. I also noticed that occasionally an enemies planet would suddenly go to me side. I wonder if by hitting cede control on the ship assault screen that it will automatically fight ground battles until they are resolved.

	06-03-2003 07:53									#6
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I think ceding control works like that H. If you skip the fleet combat it handles fleet, bombardment and ground for you, it doesn't prompt again.

If you fail to sieze any ground then your troops are destroyed I believe. I've never seen troops in the delay box. Against the New Orions I had several abortive invasions because despite 3:1 superiority and heavy damage to them I couldn't kill enough of the huge enemy force for the AI to grant a region. Still I could invade faster than they could rebuild so I got them in the end.

	06-03-2003 13:35									#7
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BTW what happens to all of the troops the other race has on a planet after I bombard the pop to zero and no buildings?

	06-03-2003 18:29									#8
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I believe (and hope) they are lost.

Have used this tactics often against the Ithkul.

btw.
If you make a Corps or Army sized unit,
always include at least some Mobile Units,
even if you buil an Armor otr Battlloid Unit.

It allows for one really effective Tactic which you canīt use without those mobile Troops.

It is "Vertical Envelopment".
It can really slaughter your enemy, especially if he just has Militia Troops.
I often get the whole Planet within one turn without the enemy even firing one shot at my troops
At one time I had my Armor Corps (10 Battloids, 4 Mobile, 4 Support, Strenght=846) fighting against a numerous superior enemy (33 Units, 12 of them Armor, Strength = 860).
Using Vertical Envelopment I had all enemy troops killed within two turns, with 6 Battloids adn 3 Mobile Troops surviving.

For this Reason I always include 4 Mobile Unis within my experienced Corps.

	07-03-2003 00:34									#9
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Good tip Proteus

	07-03-2003 01:14									#10
	Put an end to popups!

I have not played around with ground combat, just captured two planets and decided to just bust them down to zero pop. They all had hundreds of troops, so bombs away.

	07-03-2003 04:34									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Grumbold Good tip Proteus

I have now also found a drawback with my Strategy.

Donīt try it if the Enemy has more Mobile Units than you.
I tried to invade a Sakkra Planet with a whole army,
33 Units among them 20 Battloids and 5 Mobile Units.

The Enemy (as usual ) outnumbered me, AFAIR they had maybe 40 Units, 12 of them Mobile, but they were much weaker than my Units (I had a Strengt of 1600, they had just 1000).
So I thought it would be easy.

I was deadly wrong.

I chose "Vertical Envelopment" as my Tactic, as usual and startet the Battle.
A hard fighting started, much hader than I expected. The enemy lost many Units, but my own Forces also.
At the end of the turn my Battloid Forces numbered just 7 Units and my Mobile Units had dwindled to 3.
But the really Fatal thing, which doomed most of my Invasion Forces to sure Death was, that despite the bitter Fighting my Forces had been unable to secure a Beachhead on the Planet. The Invasion was stopped and just 2 Units made it back to the reserves, while all other Units, I think, died.

So now I know, that under certain circumstances those Tactis may be dangerous

(btw. the next few turns I assembled an army with an equvalent to the Army I lost.
This time I chose "Surprise Attack" (the enemy still had maybe 8 Mobiles on the Planet and had gotten Reinforcement, so his Strength was still 800).
Now I was able to conquer the Planet within a single turn without taking a single loss. [having Gargantuan Soldiers usually strongly improves their survivability ])

	07-03-2003 05:29									#12
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Is it documented anywhere what those tactics acually do? What the benefits / downsides to them are?

Ive also noticed (forgive me, im at work and dont remember the exact details) there is some kind of analysis that switches between Medium and Heavy depending on what tactic you choose and collateral and stuff. What's that about?

	07-03-2003 06:20									#13
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Vertical Envelopment is a high-risk, high-reward maneuver that used to (in the old days) require a high-quality general to pull off.

The "probability" (or whatever it's called) is intended to show the probability of success of your selected maneuver. I believe failure results in significantly higher casualties.

	07-03-2003 07:34									#14
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Xlr8, the strategy guide has tables that show what would win/loose against various strategies. Basically, it's a 23-way version of rock-paper-sissors, with almost every maneuver having a countermaneuver that would make it costly. According to it, the best defenses against Vertical Envelopment would be the Ruse or Surprise. Actually, unless you're outnumbered, those are generally the best, as at worst, you'll break even, at best you'll take half to a third the losses you otherwise would. Or is that you'd inflict more damage on the other guy? Not sure.

	07-03-2003 21:28									#15
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Would you be referring to the strategy guide they try to sell you at the store?

	07-03-2003 21:56									#16
	Vertical Envelopement Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Is mostly a misnomer. There's almost no case where vertically enveloping troops actually engaged an enemy directly (maybe Crete).

The effort is usually to get on the ground in an advantageous position THEN engage the enemy forces.

I believe current US Army tactics are being called SWARM, i.e., developing multiple axes of attack with a coordiated time on target.

The drawbacks are that your forces would be scattered and unless the enemy was also scattered it would be very difficult to actually develop an advantage.

Most of the successful "air assaults" were actually extremely risk attempts to grab and hold key territory PRIOR to followup by conventional forces.

	08-03-2003 00:21									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Craig P. Vertical Envelopment is a high-risk, high-reward maneuver that used to (in the old days) require a high-quality general to pull off. The "probability" (or whatever it's called) is intended to show the probability of success of your selected maneuver. I believe failure results in significantly higher casualties.

I would agree. I tried it two times in a row. The first was an enemy punishing success. The second time they murdered me.