05-03-2003 01:56									#1
	Planetary bank vs. empire bank Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Okay, it's my 4th day playing Moo3...and I'm KINDA getting the hang of it...but I need some help with the whole finance issue (I prefer to call it the "finance monkey")

Okay...what' the deal the planetary bank (and economy) vs. the empire bank (and economy)? When I first started playing, I saw the planetary finance ledger and thought "Oh...okay. I get it. Each planet has it's own budget, kind of like how individual states in the U.S. have their own budget, and there's also a federal (empire) budget, too. Okay." Buuuuut wait! Here's where it gets confusing. I decided to crank up production on the military queue bar all the way up to 100% on that planet, and saw that it REALLY affected the planetary budget (sent it into the negative) and I thought, "Uh-oh...what will that do? Will I start to sell off my structures or something?"

Okay...nothing (apparently) happened! I just ran a huge (-2000 au) budget deficit on the planet, but production continued to chug along. I didn't see any change in my empire wide finances either. So what's the deal? Does a planetary finance balance even matter?

-Yoink

	05-03-2003 15:31									#2
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Maybe the Planetary finances became balanced by the Empire Budget.
Maybe you should take a closer look at your Empires finances. Perhaps the Money to balance the planetary finances has been taken from your Treasury or your Planetary grants

I for my part have in one game seen a Planet which couldnīt afford the Maintenance for all of his Structures and had to sell some of them.
I think at this Point my Empire hadnīt enough AU in Reserve to balance the planetary finances.

	05-03-2003 19:30									#3
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I noticed something else that could be related (this goes togheter with the many MOO3 details I don't understand):

If I am about to go underbudget in the empire finances ... I don't. I keep staying positive no matter what I do. On the other hand, my "Interests I pay every turn" increase It's something in the finance spreadsheet that says something about interests. My opinion is that when you are about to run out of money the bank intervenes and automatically gives you a loan.

I decreased my expenses gradually (trying to keep myself positive) and I notices that the interests went down until they hit 0.

So everything you don't make as an income will get covered with bank loans and you will have to pay interests.

I have no information regarding:

• interest rates,
  
• what affect interest rates
  
• how much the bank gives me every time
  
• what is the threshold that triggers the bank loan
  
• figures that tell me how much it's convenient to rely on loans and when to stop using loans before interests murder your economy.
  
• how does this all affect planetary economy
  

	05-03-2003 20:16									#4
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I'm wondering if we all are confusing the green AU number at the top of the screen for the money that is in the Empire's bank. AU 1.1K (+12)

I was playing around with the finance sliders last night trying to determine the correlation between the numbers at the top of the screen and the ledger found in the finance screen. I think that the green number on the main screen (AU 1.1K) is the potential money that your empire can make the next turn. This number will rise as you acquire more planets, more population on said planets and as space ports are added. The number next to this (+12 in this case) is the number of extra AUs that will be received next turn.

Now the actual amount of AUs that are in the empire bank is in the lower right hand side of the Finance Ledger Screen. This bounces back and forth from negative to positive amounts on me. My problem is figuring out how this number correlates to the sliders. I can adjust the sliders so that I am at +5 AU on the main screen. The Ledger screen says that I will be at 26 AUs next turn. Hit the turn button come back and look at the Ledger screen and I am at -56 AUs. ???

Can't figure this out!

Anybody else have a handle on this?

	05-03-2003 20:35									#5
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Ah, great thread on the Official Forums. I think it confused me even more! LoL

Check it out:

Finance Thread

	05-03-2003 21:54									#6
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It seems the green number is not your imperial treasury, but only shows the income of the current turn. The +/- is the projected change of income for the next turn.

It's really amazing how they managed to make even this most basic interface element completely counter-intuitive...

	06-03-2003 17:48									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Darklighter The Ledger screen says that I will be at 26 AUs next turn. Hit the turn button come back and look at the Ledger screen and I am at -56 AUs. ??? Can't figure this out! Anybody else have a handle on this?

I think it is because also this amount is only projected and you can get more or less Money this turn according to events and the like.

And the calculation saomehow also seems to be broken.
One thing that happens regularly is that, if I sell lots of obsolete Ships, the number of the projected win/loss shows me big loss for the next turn.

But if I donīt alter the Finance-Sliders I always get a great surplus this turn. And (although Iīm not absolutely sure) the amount I get seems to be roughly equivalent to the negative amount which was shown.

As if the sold Ships arenīt calculated as a win for my finances but rather as a loss

	06-03-2003 19:23									#8
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Well, I figured this out last night. The green number at the top of the main screen is your potential spending limit for the turn (measurement of how robust your economy is). Spend more than this and you've got a chance to go into the red if your treasury is already low. When adjusting your sliders make sure that your projected spending for the turn (viewed on the ledger screen) does not exceed this green number unless you've got a substantial amount of AUs already in the bank. (listed at the top left corner of the ledger screen). Your gains and losses for each turn are not exact so be careful when adjusting the sliders.

	20-03-2003 14:09									#9
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I study bookkeeping and basic accounting many years ago before they computeizm it. What is than asset for me is than liability to someone also.
I have than checking account with than bank it is than asset for me and a liability to the bank. I take out than loan with the bank it is than liability for me and a asset for the bank.
It can get real confuseing it you donot keep track of than few simple principals. The term Debt simple is than word from Italy which mean left hand side and credit is than other word from Italy which mean right hand side. All account on paper are call T account.

+
+
+
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEBT SIDE + CREDIT SIDE
+
+
+
I than sorry I went off topic as may-be they need to talk about simple bookkeeping in the manual so people can understand what the finical screem mean. I than also
abit rustly in bookkeeper and simple accounting as I have
not use then for along time. I also find the fincial screen very confuseing also that try I hate MS Money as it does not follow the old bookkeeping way from when they actural use books accounts books.

	20-03-2003 14:12									#10
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Please inorge the grapic I try to set up it isnot correct from what I wanted to show.