05-03-2003 03:45									#1
	Space-race and beyond in MP? Tired of ads?

I have recently re-started playing CivIII PTW in multiplayer after having left it for some time, and I am finding that most of the games never get further than half way through the medieval era, and end sometimes when someone conquors everyone, but far, far more often when everyone other than me leaves after about two hours. Most of the multiplayer games seem to be set up deliberately to encourage a short game ending in conquest - small or tiny map, pangea, even elimination mode.

Am I missing something, or is about two thirds of the game's potential being wasted? I always had the impression that Civ was designed to be played over many, many hours (even days), from the beginnings of prehistory to the modern age, simulating the way in which civilisations actually came to be.

I used to play Civ II an awful lot, and I enjoyed that, and I hoped that Civ3 would let me play a more sophisticated version of Civ II. However, playing against computer opponents I found somehow hollow, so I was very keen to get PTW so that I could have a far more rewarding game against human players.

However, what I almost inevitably find is that all the players dropped out after an hour or two, leaving me to be the nominal and thoroughly hollow winner (or that I was left to play a computer player, which, in a formerly MP game, makes the interface impossible to control). For example, to-day, one player dropped out because of lag, one player dropped out because he had to eat paella (!), and one player dropped out because he was losing.

So, I joined a ladder so that at least if I won by default, I'd have something to show for it. However, reading some of the posts by Fried-Psitalon on the other forum (and they really are rather well written and useful, by the way), I was somewhat depressed to learn that "most" MP games on the ladder were played for only one or two hours with as few as two players, often on elimination mode with a small world and pangea.

Is there anywhere where one can find players who are prepared to take part in long, drawn out games that end in the space-race? Dependable sort of people who will meet back in the lobby at an appointed time days later to resume a saved game, and who don't quit when they're losing? There must be other people out there who share my enthusiasm for those sorts of games.


I'd like to be able to play in a game that might finish in 500BC or be won when a player reaches Alpha Centuri, a game that doesn't have rules other than those defined by the game itself, when the players don't know until the end what type of victory will be achieved.

Is there anyone else out there, who's willing to play long, long games over many days (and who's reliable enough to turn up at the appointed time for each resume from saved), who doesn't quit when he/she's losing, who wants to play this sort of game (whether in the ladder or not)?

If anyone else is interested in these sorts of games (and my preference is for them to be somehow recorded on the ladder, although that isn't necessary), please reply to this post. Maybe we could arrange to meet at set times, perhaps each week-end.

I'm in the UK, which has repurcussions apropos both timezone, and, until the European versions of 1.21f are released, game versions. However, if anyone is interested enough and able to overcome this, I should be very pleased to hear from you :-)

	05-03-2003 17:47									#2
	Got spare money?

I agree 100%. It gets boring playing a game for only a few hours and then ending it for the reasons you described. I have met two other players who like to play long games, who won't quit, and who are skilled players (we do not play on the ladder BTW). I'm sure they would welcome another player to our "club". It would be great to form a group of six or so players who all feel as we do and who want to play together.

Post an e-mail address here or post a time when you'll be in the MP lobby along with your MP Name so I can contact you and we can arrange to play.

	05-03-2003 21:04									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Thank you very much for replying. My e-mail is jamespetts@yahoo.com . I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the MP lobby since I'm not familliar with this site (unless you mean the chatroom to which players are directed when they select "Multiplayer" from the game's menu, in which case it may be a somewhat hit-and-miss affair), so it may be better to contact me by e-mail.

Reading your post gave me an idea - why don't we form a Yahoo! Group for people who want to play full-length multiplayer games and then post its address in all of the fora on the major fansites? We could even have our own ranking system, although it might be better to use the "ladder" at myleague.com if that can be arranged.

I should appreciate any thoughts or comments on this idea, and I shall look forward to hearing from you soon :-)

James E. Petts

	06-03-2003 01:11									#4
	Put an end to popups!

I'd love to do this, too. Unfortunatley, no one I trust has enough patience for that type of game. On top of that, I've got dial-up, and 1.14f was unplayable with 56k. Any word on wether the new patch fixes that?

	06-03-2003 01:51									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I don't know about the patch because I don't have it and in any event I have ADSL.

However, in relation to the ability to find people with enough patience, I think that was where the group idea came from :-)

	07-03-2003 07:18									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It truly is exciting when you reach the modern age. And let me tell you, it is even more exciting on multiplayer.
My friend and I have played such a game that lasted until the modern era. We were Allied across two continents and played against 6 computers. Of course, we dominated most of the computers, but 2 computer super-powers emerged, the Germans on my continent and the English on my friend's. It was thrilling to engage in global mobile warfare in the 1900s. Finally after 40 hours of gamplay, we were forced to quit because of some bug in the game(when we attempted nuclear war, the computer would launch there nukes an infinite number of times--anyone know what's wrong?) Luckily, I secretly won the space race without my ally's knowing. Anyways, this just goes to show you that there are disciplined people willing to play the world. I'd be willing to try with more than one other person.

	07-03-2003 15:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I'm sorry to hear about the bug - I hope that 1.21f (if/when it's available for European versions) has/will solve(d) that.

It sounded as if you had a really exciting game; how did you find the other person? How did you set the game up? How experienced are both of you at playing Civ3?

I must say, my preference would be to play the game without any computer players - I suppose that that would be easier if there were more players.

If/when I do found a group of some sort, I shall post about it here so that you can join if you like :-)

James E. Petts

	07-03-2003 21:01									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I have never played a multiplayer game primarily because I like playing long games. My average single player game lasts in excess of 30 hours. A long time ago I played CivNet on a server with 3 human players. We played 3 nights a week on an internal LAN for a couple of months. It was a blast (except that the d**n 14 year old son of a co-worker kept winning.)

I would LOVE to join a group that could play one or two night a week for several hours and finish an extended game!!! My only suggestion is to get a group of 8-10 people so we could have alternates when someone can't play on a given night. I used to belong to a board wargame group and we played every Thursday. We had 10 people and could play games that required 4 on a side with one alternate for each side. One of our games (Highway to the Reich) took 9 months before we declared a victorious side!!! Other games would easily last several months. So I've been waiting and watching and hoping for a similiar situation to arise with Civ.

Contact me at ahaug@comcast.net

	07-03-2003 23:36									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Here is a short term fix for you until your 'clan' or what not is off the ground;MP games starting from the Modern or Industrial Eras...
This is enjoyable , yet unusually tough to find like minded players to endulge.
Keep'er movin'

	08-03-2003 02:43									#10
	Tired of ads?

For you players out there who like to play long games PBEM is the way to go. Having all players playing at the same time is a logistical nightmare so A game played by e-mail is much simpler way to go. There is a seperate section for PBEMer's go to the forum and try to find an open game or announce that you are starting a new game.