05-03-2003 08:27									#61
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Did the government lie during McCarthyism? Did the government lie about the Vietnam war? Did the government lie about Watergate? Did the government lie Iran-Contra? Did the government lie under Clinton? If they've been lying for fifty years, why do you think they're telling the truth now?

Yes to all above. So what else is new?

	05-03-2003 08:33									#62
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hahah recovers thanks to his tax cuts.

listen to all of these chickenhawks getting defensive as soon as the world starts to burn cuz of their ideals.
'Lets pick em off one at a time' eh guys
Go inthere with guns blazing, praise the lord, and pass the ammunition
i mean, lets just go and invade every country who defies us because hey, we need their (insert resource here)
Nevermind that we dont have support of UN or even US congress Declaration of War.
You can literally see that Bush is going to declare this war all by hismelf. he's like a dictator and isnt accountable to anyone when it comes to this war

but dont question our morals because thats unpatriotic. move to cuba because we dont have to have to answer to difficult questions. we dont have time to deal with these insignficant problems of internation diplomacy or our constitution

but by god, we have to respect states rights to the limit
if they wanna keep them (instert minority here) down, well who are we to say that what they are doing is wrong?

we are going to install democracy in iraq where the person with the most votes loses and the leaders are puppets to america
we are going to bring economic stability to the region, courtesy of the country that brought you enron.

another gift to the grateful world

and while the war will go on, and the questions will remain unanswered, all what i can say in 10 years when this whole thing has blown up in our face is that i didnt support it for the wrong reasons, and that i resisted the current trend towards bowing my head towards everything that the government says.

the true patriots are not those who support the current government, but those whose love of country makes them always question, and probe, and keep our nation away from the icebergs.

because even the unsinkable ship sank.

	05-03-2003 08:33									#63
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Bush!



Great news. In some ways, a unilateral war could be better then a UN backed one. Even if we did go to war with UN backing but that was only by jumping through a bunch of hoops that the French made us, it might serve to strengthen the prestige of the UNSC and work to set a precedent that UN backing is needed to undertake military action. Conversely, taking military action now with no UN support will help work to make the UN meaningless. Under UN rules the countries of France, Russia, and China all have a veto over our foreign policy. I don't think that's a good thing. Therefore, weakening the UN in my opinion is something that will serve our interests and make it easier to take the actions needed to protect ourselves.

	05-03-2003 08:41									#64
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Bye-bye, Joseph. Kayak leaves shortly.

quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
I shouldn't say anything about politics, since I consider myself Independent, and could vote either party.

I guess there's not much difference in that, and waffling between Communism and Socialism; but hey, it's your country, too.

Freedoms. You have a freedom to be an ungrateful putz all day.
It's all good.
People like Sprayber guarantee that you'll keep that right.


"I ask you, what did Iraq do to the US? If it didn't do anything, what is the US doing there?

So, some of you might counter that Hussein is going to have nuclear weapons and will use it to blow up some US cities. To this I reply, you might as well lock up everybody in the US now, for anybody can be a potential criminal.?"--UrbanRanger

Well, I hate to credit Sava for even being partly right , but he is, partly right.
It's been discussed in the news, as well as this forum.

I will say this.
Hussein swore to...God, no weapons.
The inspectors found weapons.
The problem, again, is that Hussein should have been dusted SOMETIME in the last 12 years before now.

Go do some reading in a place with more facts than what a communist wannabe says.
Interesting. A communist wannabe, fighting such odds in the most democratic nation on Earth.
Shock jock. Nothing to do with sports, Che.
Just garnering attention with outrageousness.

It's really kind of sad, it a pathetic and pitiable way.
But I'll save my pity for those more deserving, maybe for Iraqi people ground down by your hero.

	05-03-2003 08:48									#65
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israel says they dont have nukes
if we went in there, we would find nukes
guess we better go and pick em off

ah yes, the use of the word communist as reprehensible. the left could easily call you the fascists: it would be fun to be compared to an ideology which went through systematic destruction of an entire people. the worlds second genocide.

and tell me how invading iraq will guarantte my freedom? ill tell you whats eating away at my freedom. its the patriot act. your freedoms get taken away at home, not from abroad by some two cent dictator. not to mention TIPS which narrowly was killed, but we can still see what the government thinks

	05-03-2003 08:48									#66
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Sloww, I strongly urge you to cease this incredibly rude and disrespectful behaviour.

	05-03-2003 08:49									#67
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara What will this do for nations that support us, like Britain and Spain? Will these governments still be able to give support to the US if Bush refuses to seek UN approval for his war of aggression? Will they fall? And what about countries that are important for the physical aspects of the invasion, like Saudi Arabia, which said that it only allow it's territory to be used if the UN approves of military action. Is the Bush government really so completely out of touch with reality that they think they can get away with making enemies of the world? They are ignoring a major crisis on the Korean Peninsula in order to be able to attack Iraq. They managed to get lucky and nab a senior al-Qaeda leader, and kudos for that. But they're still ignoring the large base of a-Qaeada operatives in Pakistan, they're ignoring the source of funding for al-Qaeda from Saudi Arabia (which is still sending money!!!!).

I still say there is no way that the invasion will be called off, but that it should be. Superpowers don't admit defeat easily. The war is already having a horrible effect on the economy. It appears that the US wont get UN backing and that is going to make the economy worse. Also, the war will be delayed longer because the troops will have to reposition from off the coast of Turkey. It's horrible, and it's all Bush's fault. I predict that he will go down in history as the worst president in a long time.

	05-03-2003 08:53									#68
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Bye-bye, Joseph. Kayak leaves shortly.

quote: Originally posted by Joseph Good Luck from an old Navy vet. Forty year ago I was in boot camp. God time flys. Feb. 13, 1962 to March 26, 1965

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...415#post1753415

	05-03-2003 08:56									#69
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RE: The news story, it is utterly unbelievable, I think I am nearly desensitized to the shock of these kinds of stories after hearing about them for so long.

	05-03-2003 09:00									#70
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Sloww is sufferin' from foot-in-mouth disease

	05-03-2003 09:05									#71
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i used to be wavering between war and no war after powells speach, but after reading this thread, ive become totally anti war. until the supporters address the questions and problems, until bush goes through the UN and the US congress, until the supporters start listening because they are afraid, i will not miss a single protest in my area.

if this war drags on and we get bogged down in there, i may even turn to violence against the authorities. sorry spray, but you may come home with the town on fire. bush wants to ignore us, fine, lets light a fire under his tail

i finally see david floyd's idea of universal guns for everyone. that way ican go down to the local 5 and dime and pick up my HK PDW, 3000 rounds of ammo, and hit the streets to fight the po's, the fbi, the national guard and any other dickhead who wont listen.

because when you go off halfcocked, your gun may misfire.

	05-03-2003 09:06									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Sloww is sufferin' from foot-in-mouth disease

Or head-in-*** disease.



Initially, I was fairly in support of the war, but as time goes on, the whole thing doesn't make sense.

Why Iraq and not North Korea?

Simple answer really, we are simply picking on the little guy. North Korea, with it's big brother China, already fought us to a stalemate once.

I say, forget about it and go home, protect our own country and to hell with everybody else, including the U.N.

If they want our help, you have to pay for it.

We should stop being the world's policeman, nobody wants us to do it anyway.

ACK!

	05-03-2003 09:06									#73
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I will say this. Hussein swore to...God, no weapons. The inspectors found weapons. The problem, again, is that Hussein should have been dusted SOMETIME in the last 12 years before now. Go do some reading in a place with more facts than what a communist wannabe says. Interesting. A communist wannabe, fighting such odds in the most democratic nation on Earth. Shock jock. Nothing to do with sports, Che. Just garnering attention with outrageousness. It's really kind of sad, it a pathetic and pitiable way. But I'll save my pity for those more deserving, maybe for Iraqi people ground down by your hero.

That doesn't answer my question.

What did Iraq do to the US?

Sure, Hussein violated UNSC resolutions. Just as surely, that is not the reason. You (in the generic chicken hawks sense) have repeated the same excuse a zillion times. It doesn't mean it is true.

So why does the US so hellbent on attacking?

	05-03-2003 09:08									#74
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"That doesn't answer my question."

That says it all from bush, to rice, to fleisher all the way down, about the chicken hawks.

	05-03-2003 09:11									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski We should stop being the world's policeman, nobody wants us to do it anyway.

World's Policeman? Tuberski, don't be silly.

The US foreign policy after WWII has always been self-serving with ongoing attempts to put a thin veneer of whatever was/is fashionable at the time. Right now, it's "weapons of mass destruction." Not long ago, it was "terrorism." Before that, "human rights."

Of course, inconsistency in US actions has always exposed these lies.

	05-03-2003 09:11									#76
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I didn't think it possible to have your head in your ass and your foot in your mouth, but I think I just witnesses it.

	05-03-2003 09:13									#77
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Bye-bye, Joseph. Kayak leaves shortly.

Please explain the above.

	05-03-2003 09:13									#78
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"So why does the US so hellbent on attacking?"

Nobody knows
doesnt seem anybody cares
as long as nobody asks the questions, no one will be any the wiser
and anyone who resists are unpatriotic and must leave the country immediatly

	05-03-2003 09:14									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger World's Policeman? Tuberski, don't be silly. The US foreign policy after WWII has always been self-serving with ongoing attempts to put a thin veneer of whatever was/is fashionable at the time. Right now, it's "weapons of mass destruction." Not long ago, it was "terrorism." Before that, "human rights." Of course, inconsistency in US actions has always exposed these lies.

I should have actually said, "stop trying to be the world's policemen."

ACK!

	05-03-2003 09:16									#80
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looks like we finally pinned them against the wall you guys

like an evil fluid which runs its course, it is impossible to pin down, but it will pop up again somewhere else

if anyone on the left is a disease, anyone who is pro war can be a fluid.

	05-03-2003 09:17									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph Please explain the above.

He implied that you are UnPatriotic and will be shipped to Cuba.

	05-03-2003 09:18									#82
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK I didn't think it possible to have your head in your ass and your foot in your mouth, but I think I just witnesses it.

Amazing ain't it?

	05-03-2003 09:19									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia if this war drags on and we get bogged down in there, i may even turn to violence against the authorities. sorry spray, but you may come home with the town on fire. bush wants to ignore us, fine, lets light a fire under his tail i finally see david floyd's idea of universal guns for everyone. that way ican go down to the local 5 and dime and pick up my HK PDW, 3000 rounds of ammo, and hit the streets to fight the po's, the fbi, the national guard and any other dickhead who wont listen. because when you go off halfcocked, your gun may misfire.

Fight war with violence?

That makes sense, almost as much as fighting cancer with radiation.

You hope the cure, kills the disease before it kills the patient.

ACK!

	05-03-2003 09:27									#84
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excellent analogy Tuberski! i like it

	05-03-2003 09:37									#85
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What did Saddam ever do to the US?

Try to assassinate George H. W. Bush, president of the United States.

	05-03-2003 12:49									#86
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At least, this could very well stop a war dead in it's tracks. Any aggressive action at this point would be such a pyrhic victory that perhaps even Bush will swallow his pride and step down. It is interesting that even rightists such as MtG, Tuberski and DinoD no longer support the war. With perhaps the smallest amount of support of any war ever initiated by a democratic nation, if Bush indeed launches his war, it could very well be a folly of such a grand scale that Bush will be condemned amongst the great villains of history.

	05-03-2003 12:51									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Try to assassinate George H. W. Bush, president of the United States.

So the US tried to assassinate Hussein. Seems evened out to me.

	05-03-2003 12:51									#88
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Ah, an alleged plot that never materialized. Probably true, but absent an attempt, that's a pretty thin casus belli, like the future WMD garbage, for a $100 billion expenditure, total commitment of US ground combat capability, and potential destabilization of the most important resource center for the industrialized world.

The financial markets are just loaded with optimism over the whole grand adventure.

BTW - Slowwhand, one more "go to Cuba" crack towards ANY other poster here, and you'll have a week off to think about going somewhere with a nice tropical beach. Ming's warned you before about attacking the poster, rather than the post.

Monkspider: I'm only a "rightist" because you're a damn commie. All the real rightists think I'm a stinkin' lefty.

	05-03-2003 12:52									#89
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monkie,

To be fair, I don't think MtG has ever supported Gulf War II.

	05-03-2003 12:53									#90
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Ah fair enough, I somehow was under the impression that he did in the past. My apologies.