28-02-1999 00:11									#1
	"Earth Factions" ideas continued Support Apolyton

MarkG posted 02-22-99 20:13 EDT

Any ideas on making earth factions, like a German faction, an Engilsh one, a US, etc...

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of each?

----------------
Kinjiru posted 02-23-99 08:46 EDT
Boy we are just inviting sterotyping aren't we? =)

----------------
MarkG posted 02-23-99 09:43 EDT

Hehe, not my intention, but you got to admit that TODAY some countries have a better industry than others, a better economy than others, a better army than others, less democracy than others, etc...

How about "accepting" an English faction only from English smacers?

----------
Kinjiru posted 02-23-99 18:45 EDT
Okay, i am game (just waiting for the flames)...

Russia - Major inefficieny (due to corruption and chronic nutrient shortage)

US - would normally have low support rating due to democratic and free market, but high morale would even this out - so call it a neutral support rating, fairly high research, neutral planet rating due to advanced tech which would even out the sprawl and large pop.

Western european factions - high nutrient availability would lead to high growth rating, neutral research, neutral planet

Eastern european factions - high support due to relatively new-found democratic ideals, low research and very low planet rating since they would be still in the developing mode.

Latin/South American/South Asian - neutral research, very low planet (major popultion due to nature of developing economies/industries), very low probe (high corruption - strong cartels)

Australians - ridiculously high support (just keep em drunk), neutral probe, low everyhting else

Chinese - high research, moderate probe (maybe +1) due to fear, low support but maybe figure out a way to make units cheaper, high gwoth, very low planet (big population and lots of pollution)

Hmmm... that's it for now. Who's next?

----------
Pythagoras posted 02-23-99 19:42 EDT
I think it'd be better if we talked about different leader's characteristics. We should stick to saying stuff like 'Stalin's philosiphy would create his society to be . . . list all the Social engineering stuff he would get bonusses/minusses etc. '

Also, if anyone is interested in helping to create an Earth Mod for SMAC, please give your thoughts on the SMAC hacking thread
Ideas, 'civilized' criticisms are welcome! I'm trying to rally support. With the Earth map coming out, and people getting ideas about 'historical' scenarios, a fully functional Earth Mod is needed. Essentially it will utilize SMAC's gameplay/interface, to create a Hitorical, civ-like environment. Feedback (positive or negative) is desired!! :]

Thanks, Pythagoras.
-------------------
St Leo posted 02-26-99 23:40 EDT

Americans: I disagree with Kinjuru on their planet rating, since I feel we should rather stick with reality. And since their urban sprawl is the worst in the world they should get a horrible planet rating.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jean Chretien: Hey, I get the right to be biased as well.:-) An eternal neutral, never associates with any particular position for long. No bonuses or penalties whatsoever.

Prince Charles: High morale rating due to his family's internal workings as shown by the papparazzis. But the speeder chassis gets 1.5 movement points due to ears getting in the way.

Pope Johnie-Paul II: Immense population growth due to bans on birth control, abortion, divorce, and euthanasia with correspondingly low planet rating. Cannot make Knowledge Social Engineering choice.

Bill Clinton: Above average population growth, but science is reduced due to half the kids being the president's.

Boris Yeltsin: Negative random disasters don't apply due to paramount experience in dealing with them. Planet rating low due to highly polluting industrial practices.

Nelson Mandela: High planet rating despite high population growth. Unhappiness above average due to discontented Boer descendants.

------------
hopefully everything will appear right on this post...

Markos, Apolyton CS

	28-02-1999 03:57									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Pythagoras. I have not bought SMAC because the sci.fi aspect does not interest me.
I hope you are successful creating an Earth like scenario pack. I would buy the game then.

	28-02-1999 06:11									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Thanks Biggles.:-)

	25-02-2002 11:36									#4
	Support Apolyton

Heehee, I was just considering this Earth Leaders scenario and here we have a thread way at the bottom of the pile (literally).

These days, a few of the leaders would change, but it looks pretty fun so far.

My idea was to put together a Earth Mod and eventually run a multiplayer game with it.

Consider this a bump.

I'd be more than happy to slap this mod together but to expect it to be played, it should be reputable. Thus, feedback from abroad is appropriate.

Feedback away!

	25-02-2002 12:48									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've made two factions based on earthlings. They came out pretty well although unpolished. I would love to make Cold War scenario. West vs East, Capitalism vs Socialism. I think it could be fun to play it in MP knowing that we have socialist SMAC players and capitalist emphatizers here at Apolyton.

	27-02-2002 04:06									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There was a Finnish faction here somewhere, but I think it's source page is down.

	27-02-2002 07:22									#7
	Re: "Earth Factions" ideas continued Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by MarkG Australians - ridiculously high support (just keep em drunk), neutral probe, low everyhting else

Any other Australians here insulted by this unfair stereotype?

	27-02-2002 13:35									#8
	Remove this text

Finnish faction:

Attachment: finnish.zip
This has been downloaded 104 time(s).

	28-02-2002 02:42									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by aaglo Finnish faction:

	06-03-2002 02:20									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Eastern european factions - high support due to relatively new-found democratic ideals, low research and very low planet rating since they would be still in the developing mode.

AHEM!!!

Could you just try and count all the names in research centres, r&d laboratories, technitians, important scientists, whose surnames end with "ic"!!!!!!! No you couldn't because there are so many of them -->

There should be a plus in research but also a negative probe since many of countries the Eastern Europe are disunited.

But really this kind of a mod would be particullary (and probably uninterntionally) rasist. Who can say what is bad with your neighbour? It is probably best tp do it the Civ way by just giving two (or possibly 3) pluses but no minuses.

	24-05-2002 21:54									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

HIGH POPULATION DOES NOT CAUSE POLLUTION!!!!! that is a total myth

	25-05-2002 03:39									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

what about all those polluting people? smoke belching factories and power plants built to support this high pop?

	01-06-2002 08:01									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

People do not pollute, CORPORATIONS polute. The "law of population" is a right-wing, false, and biased way of blaming people for the ecological problems theyve caused. There has been NO CORRELATION between population and overall eco damage in real life. What causes pollution is industrialization, uncontrolled industrial growth, and strictness of regulations in a country. see http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secE6.html for details :-)

although i would love to play the americans in a game and emulate all the capitalist propaganda and stupidity it produces (trade with us or your an enemy of freedom!) , or better yet, play as stalin and mock state socialism (of course a police state is necessary! Do you want your socialist father to be beaten!?)

	03-06-2002 21:05									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Oh, CORPORATIONS pollute? And corporations are owned by?...Yes. People own corporations. So, what you know. It seems that after all people are responsible for pollution.

	05-06-2002 00:30									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: What causes pollution is industrialization, uncontrolled industrial growth, and strictness of regulations in a country

no population=none of that

more population DOES mean more pollution.

	11-06-2002 14:53									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

This thread seems like more trouble than it's worth, IMHO...

Personally, I wouldn't play with Earth-derived factions myself - being the SF nut that I am, I prefer the freshness & imagination of the original factions Plus, one of the basic tenets of SMAC was that the factions were divided 'not by nationality, but by ideology', which I think is a rather cool picture of the near future

	12-06-2002 13:40									#17
	Suffering from ads?

If you're gonna play with Earth nations, you may as well play Civilization II.

And I'm sick of how everything, including the innocent "Who would you join?" thread, turns into a discussion of the merits of capitalism and communism.

	12-06-2002 23:08									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Mr. President If you're gonna play with Earth nations, you may as well play Civilization II. And I'm sick of how everything, including the innocent "Who would you join?" thread, turns into a discussion of the merits of capitalism and communism.

Yeah i agree.

Another thing, From what I have learned it's risky to start assiging civ related postitives and negatives. SMAC works around this by assigning these things based on Ideology instead of nationality. Otherwise, you just get a group of people upset. I argrued that it would be neat for CIV111 to incoparate this but quickly learned that its hard to do without offending someone. :shrugs:

	13-06-2002 00:24									#19
	People Pollute Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: If you're gonna play with Earth nations, you may as well play Civilization II. And I'm sick of how everything, including the innocent "Who would you join?" thread, turns into a discussion of the merits of capitalism and communism.

I also agree.
That said, I do have a thought re the following:

quote: What causes pollution is industrialization, uncontrolled industrial growth, and strictness of regulations in a country

quote: no population=none of that more population DOES mean more pollution.

Case point: Africa, away from the "civilized" areas. No industrialization, no industrial growth, no regulations, more population, mega pollution. The water isn't fit for a dog to drink.
In High School, I had a History/Social Studies/Civics teacher who toured an area in central sub-saharan Africa six months after a Peace Corps group was there. The Peace Corps had dug a well, found good clean water, and set up some pumps, along with basins and troughs. By the time my teacher's tour arrived, the water was dangerous because the villagers (instructed by their medicine man or Shaman or whatever) had dropped in two dead antelope to "bless" the well. Around noontime one day, a middle-aged man took off his outer garment and walked into the stinking pool of mud in his underwear. He took a crusty rag, wet it in the "water" and "washed" himself. He dipped a finger in the water and brushed his few remaining teeth. Then, in full view of everyone, he proceeded to pee in the very same water. My teacher asked someone if the man was insane. The reply? "No. That's what we all do."
Am I saying this is rampant throughout all of "Third World" Africa? Absolutely not! But it is an unisolated example of how un[der]educated people can ruin their own environment without industry.

	14-06-2002 01:54									#20
	Support Apolyton

not sure how strictness would INCREASE pollution. Actually, it depends on what you mean by strict regulations. ie, strict regulations on pollution would invariably DECREASE pollution (need I even say that?). What exactly is meant by that statement?

	21-06-2002 01:09									#21
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Once more the uninformed anti-industry bias show its face.

Industry in of itself is fairly clean. Pollution arises from transportation, lack of proper waste disposal, agriculture, etc.

Check out the CMA's stats of big polluters, you'll see very quickly that the largest source of pollution is the private citizen.

	26-06-2002 11:26									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Perhaps you don't really need to make up any new factions at all; it seems to me that some of the basic SMAC factions might just do OK as is. Since these characters are all like old friends, it wouldn't be so offensive to have your country assigned one of them. How aboaut this for openers:

Yang: China
Morgan: US
Dee: New Zealand
Lal #1: Europe
Lal #2: India
Miriam #1: Central America
Miriam #2: Middle East.

One could include Canada and some Pacific Islands with New Zealand to beef them up a bit more. The Miriams could be combined into a single faction and Sparta added as Israel. Europe and perhaps the US could have outposts overseas like particularly Australia, Southern Africa for Lal-Europe and Japan & some Pacific islands with the US. Much of South America, Africa and Russia would be up for grabs. I don't think that Zak really has a home in this more or less real world.

	11-09-2002 08:22									#23
	Support Apolyton

It's not that hard! You just put each of the characters in thier given home country, and it comes quite close!