06-03-2003 19:02									#181
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu Actually, I quite doubt that. The occupation of palestine is not about stopping terrorism, one must be incredibly naive to buy that line.

Since the amount of successful terror attacks is an order of magnitude less now then it was a year ago, I don't see how it's niave at all.

	06-03-2003 20:18									#182
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quote: When did the American revolutionaries bomb a busload of civilians - or indeed, target any civilians?

Loyalists (whose numbers approximately equaled revolutionaries - about a third of the population) were commonly tarred and feathered and the like. Some were imprisoned or had their property confiscated.

	06-03-2003 21:46									#183
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Vintage 'gnu.



-Arrian

	07-03-2003 00:38									#184
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quote: Depends. Do we take into account the possibility of a failing parliament? do we agree on an exact time frame? I claim the following: 1. Assuming: a. Arafat and his mates will be gone b. The war in Iraq will be successfull and Iraq will be recovering and democritizing c. Sharon's government will be stable (economically and socially wise) d. There will be less terract attempts e. Sharon will remain in power and will not be charged with implications in monetary crimes in Israel. 2. That: a. Sharon will take out National Union and National Religious Party out of the colaition b. Sharon will join with the Labour Party in a unity government c. Sharon will remove IDF to posts close to those of Sept. 2000, though possibly with permission to go back in at will. d. Sharon will make arrangements to dismantle a good part of the settlements, or create such an agreement, to be followed by the next government. e. Sharon will negociate with a new Palestinian government directly or through mediators (USA, EU, whatever) f. Sharon will liberalize Israel 3. In the time frame: a. of the next 1.5 to 4 years, assuming he holds on to power, and doesn't suffer from serious threats on his position as PM.

Sorry, but the chance of all those things happening is almost nothing. No wager. Wagers tend to involve some measure of risk.

	07-03-2003 02:08									#185
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Siro, you're the one who's ignoring this "time frame" as you put it.

30 years. You're stuck on the last 5.

Now you can't get out because you've dug yourself in so deep. You had direct military governance of (all? most?) of the Occupied Territories for most of that 30 years. You stayed way too long. Now you've got to deal with the hornet's nest you've got your hand in. Instead, you're complaining that the hornets won't stop stinging you.

	07-03-2003 02:12									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Edan When did the American revolutionaries bomb a busload of civilians - or indeed, target any civilians?

Are you out of your mind? They burned and lynched the Loyalists (who took up 1/3 of the population of the "US" at the time) on a large enough basis that they fled to Canada in the tens of thousands.

	07-03-2003 02:13									#187
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Damn. Ramo's post was on the next page.

	07-03-2003 02:24									#188
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quote: 30 years. You're stuck on the last 5. Now you can't get out because you've dug yourself in so deep. You had direct military governance of (all? most?) of the Occupied Territories for most of that 30 years. You stayed way too long. Now you've got to deal with the hornet's nest you've got your hand in. Instead, you're complaining that the hornets won't stop stinging you.

you're saying this as if there were no terror attacks before 67'

	07-03-2003 03:17									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Are you out of your mind? They burned and lynched the Loyalists (who took up 1/3 of the population of the "US" at the time) on a large enough basis that they fled to Canada in the tens of thousands.

Didn't realize that. Was this by the revolutionary army doing this? Or mobs of people doing this? Was it advocated by Washington (or any of the others)?

	07-03-2003 03:31									#190
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I know it was done with the consent (sometimes tacit and sometimes explicit) of regional authorities.

I can't tell you right now how high up it went. I don't know that much about American history of the time. Any experts here?

	08-03-2003 04:50									#191
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quote: Actually, they ARE giving land back. There are currently several law suits regarding who owns what parcels of land... But that is beside the point.

ahem.

you better read this then:

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,45717,00.html

	08-03-2003 08:34									#192
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CyberGnu, I think your proposal is consistent with Bush's statement in his speech last week to a point. The solution to the RoR will not involve Isreal giving up land after having given up the settlements.

I suspect the refugees will become ciitzens of the state where they currently live. Israel may be asked take over the obligation of support of the refugees for transitional period.

As to Palestine, the deal should provide considerable reconstruction aid from the UN. Don't ask Israel to pay for this. The will never agree to it, nor should they. The Palestinians are as much to blame for the destruction of their country as is Israel.