10-03-2003 23:23									#31
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Sounds like fun Ned

I have never had a satellite "used" for war
in any game whether SP or MP. In solo games its usually beacuse the AI never really gets the chance. In MP games I have only had a couple get to the PB stage and in each case, the game was over before anyone could build orbitals.

I did have one game where I built a bunch of ODPs in a MP game. I like to think that having about 8 of them up there was a disincentive for my enemies to go the PB route.

	11-03-2003 03:50									#32
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Ned,

I know you are a good player, so I imagine a large part of the time you either have or are extremely close to getting ODPs by the time the AI gets PBs.

If true, the window of opportunity for AI PB use with you are a target is fairly small. And while I have seen the AI waste PBs trying to get thru as many as 10 ODPs to hit me repeatedly, I'm fairly sure it is a deterring factor in their launch/not-launch equation.

	11-03-2003 19:52									#33
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Fitz, you are perhaps right on this. I also spread my SPs around as much as possible. But I am sure there have been numbers of games that the AI had PBs and could have used them but did not.

When the AI strikes, it often hits a base with a large attacking force. In the game I mentioned above, the base hit was a small sea base. However, it contained a very large number of missles.

Yeah, Flubber, being attacked in Space is a first for me. Most games, the I am so far ahead that the AI never has the tech to build ODP before the game is practically over. This game, the AI kept up or was ahead most of the game in tech. Data built about 5 ODPs, which in itself, is a rarity.

BTW, one of the reasons the AI kept up was that I pre-forested the world. This seems to help the AI a lot.

	12-03-2003 08:33									#34
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In my experience, only the AI with agressive personality ever used PBs on me. Never been hit by the AI with pacifist and erratic personalities.

	12-03-2003 11:18									#35
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Vagabond, I have been attacked only by Yang and Miriam. However, the Data Angels attack on my ODP clearly was intended to pave the way for a nuke.

The alien factions often attack each other with PBs. As well, my own submissive, I believe Aki, launched an attack once.

BTW, does anyone else love Fungal missiles? They're cool.

	12-03-2003 14:50									#36
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I have never been hit by PBs, and I don't recall actually using one.

	12-03-2003 22:07									#37
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Please tell me how you get your AI to the stage where you can have a satellite war with it
I've tried increasing their bonuses, having high rainfall and generally giving them all my techs but they keep turning on me long before we get to that stage and im forced to hurt them

	13-03-2003 00:02									#38
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Try switching to the worst faction in the game in, say, 2200, or even later. Very challenging, at least for me.

	13-03-2003 00:29									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Please tell me how you get your AI to the stage where you can have a satellite war with it

I've had several satellite wars with the AI on forest-seeded Ringworld style custom maps (320x32). You'd be amazed at what kind of building the AI can do when their nearest neighbors are 35-50 tiles away on either side.

	13-03-2003 05:36									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Vagabond, I have been attacked only by Yang and Miriam.

Recently I have been playing with "random personalities" option on. Thus I had a chance to observe other factions being aggressive. I was nuked by Roze, but her personality happened to be agressive in that particular game.

quote: However, the Data Angels attack on my ODP clearly was intended to pave the way for a nuke.

Yes, but it is still a long way between attacking a sattelite, be it
even ODP, and actually using PBs.

quote: As well, my own submissive, I believe Aki, launched an attack once.

In my experience, this happens only after some agressive AI faction used PBs on another AI faction first. In this case it may get out of conrol, with AI factions indiscriminately nuking each other.

quote: BTW, does anyone else love Fungal missiles? They're cool.

I have the following problem with Fungal Missiles. The first missile works fine, and the number of tiles infected by fungus is equal to the engine type number. But if I use a second missile on the same base, it always affects only one tile, irrespective of the engine. I find this rather disappointing and a waste of production.

	13-03-2003 05:38									#41
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Well, I have tweaked my game to make the AI stronger. First preseeding the world with dots of forest really helps the AI. They tend never to plant forests for some reason.

I additionally prevent the construction of mines until later - for example, the tech when the mineral caps are relieved. This forces the AI to not build those ridiculous far/mine combo's. As well, each AI faction is given a former as a free unit. I have see the AI never build any terraforming. The free former helps.

I also move Genejacks up to an earlier tech (optical computers). This is intended to get the AI to a higher mineral count sooner to force a pop before they begin to build tree farms. This is fundamentally necessary if the Tree Farm is to add to "clean minerals." See my article on this.

I move choppers to a very late tech to essentially take them out of the game. Choppers really give too much of an advantage to the human.

Next, I add "build" to every AI "interests." Research build techs helps the AI on infrastructure.

Finally, I set every AI faction to pacifist. What this does is reduced AI wars and promote AI pacts. An AI war forces the AI to build units, not infrastructure. With no war and numbers of pacts, the AI builds infrastructure and trades techs with their fellow pact members.

Taking off on the above ideas, I understand that you can build scenarios where the AI's are submissives to each other so they are forced to share techs. This really helps the AI keep up.

With all of the above in place, I generally find that I do not catch up to the AI in tech until the late 2200's or later. I have actually played games where I never caught up. Note, if you are permanently behind the AI in tech, you never even get an opportunity to build those SP's. This forces one in an average game really be aggressive in building prob teams to steal tech. Otherwise, there would be no hope.

	13-03-2003 06:10									#42
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Recently I have been playing with "random personalities" option on. Thus I had a chance to observe other factions being aggressive. I was nuked by Roze, but her personality happened to be agressive in that particular game. Yes, but it is still a long way between attacking a sattelite, be it even ODP, and actually using PBs. In my experience, this happens only after some agressive AI faction used PBs on another AI faction first. In this case it may get out of conrol, with AI factions indiscriminately nuking each other. I have the following problem with Fungal Missiles. The first missile works fine, and the number of tiles infected by fungus is equal to the engine type number. But if I use a second missile on the same base, it always affects only one tile, irrespective of the engine. I find this rather disappointing and a waste of production.

I haven't experienced this. What I do is put the missile in the center of the largest patch of open ground. I normally do not attack right next to a base.

What they really do is muck up a ground counter attack when you take a base. This is especially important if you do not have the HSA. The AI will always take the base you just conquered back with a probe.

	13-03-2003 14:36									#43
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Pacting them all together is like the ultimate builder challenge right?
I remember trying that even though i hate playing as cha dawn. I got my island secure, whatever the AI threw at me i was able to counter, i was behind in techs for abit until my foil probes caught me up but it got so tiresome being stuck on an island doing the same thing turn after turn i gave up on it.
Might just create my own version playing a map with 1 or 2 central continents where i play as a more aggressive faction such as yang and fight all the AI on land at once, just as interesting, especially since yang will be even further behind then cha dawn in terms of tech.
I'm gonna nuke the AI to hell when i get the chance aswell and hopefully any AI factions alive will try and do the same to me

	13-03-2003 21:39									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus Pacting them all together is like the ultimate builder challenge right? I remember trying that even though i hate playing as cha dawn. I got my island secure, whatever the AI threw at me i was able to counter, i was behind in techs for abit until my foil probes caught me up but it got so tiresome being stuck on an island doing the same thing turn after turn i gave up on it. Might just create my own version playing a map with 1 or 2 central continents where i play as a more aggressive faction such as yang and fight all the AI on land at once, just as interesting, especially since yang will be even further behind then cha dawn in terms of tech. I'm gonna nuke the AI to hell when i get the chance aswell and hopefully any AI factions alive will try and do the same to me

I played a recent game with where I had set capturing a base steal tech. I ended up on the same continent with Yang, Morgan and Rose. By the time Yang collided with me, he had already wiped out Rose and Morgan, was the world leader in tech, and of course, everything else as well. The very large army that hit me were all veterns or better.

What a game.

I ended up winning the battle only for two reasons: First when Yang got artillery, he built almost nothing else. While these did a number on my attacking rovers, his assault stalled because you need more than artillery to attack. Soon we both got airpower. I then killed him by converting a number of my rovers to anti-aircraft units to kill his jets while my own interceptors provided aircover for my rovers.

edit: air-superiority, not AA.

	14-03-2003 00:21									#45
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When I first started SMAC up after a long break I was in a pitched battle against the Hive playing as the Spartans. I had a nice foothold on his continent from the east and my pact-sister Gaians just opened up on his western front due to sea levels dropping. Yang opened up with a PB on the last base I took from him. I shat my pants in shock but an EDP covered it.

Only other time Miriam lobbed on a PB at Deidre but EDP's stopped it.