05-03-2003 21:28									#1
	Planet Busters Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It has been a very long time since the AI has used one on me. Is it because I never build one - or even have one in my design queue? (I have the autodesign off.)

I remember when I first started playing the game, I would get wacked often. But then I had autodesign on and may have actually built a few.

Regardless, I now largely ingore PB's.

	05-03-2003 23:21									#2
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i've never seen the AI use a PB with the charter in place. could that be it perhaps?

	05-03-2003 23:38									#3
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Could it also be that you have gotten so much better than the AI that they never get the opportunity??

I have never been PB'd by the AI but they have built the weapon. Its just that I would track them and kill them if they ever came into range of my bases--

	06-03-2003 00:01									#4
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My guess is likely what Flubber is suggesting.

Likely your game style has evolved such that you have commanding leads and are either so dominating when going on the offensive that the AI is not capable of producig PB's or are running a builder game.

My expereince is PB'ing is usually in done in the throws of a hot war. The AI is in desperation mode and throws its PB arsenal at you. If the charter is in effect that is. My guess is your wars are now reaching the stage that they are short and sweet and the AI has no real chance to become prolongedly desperate.

	06-03-2003 00:49									#5
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Has never been hit by a PB, happy that it so to

But then I don't remove the charter whery often

	06-03-2003 01:03									#6
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In all my games the AI builts PB's regardless of it's style, always. It starts building them as soon as it gets the required tech. But, it has only used it when both of the following were true :
1) the charter was off
2) the odds were that it would loose the war, so it was a weapon of last resort

	06-03-2003 03:38									#7
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I've played a PBEM game where my brother and I watched the AI Drones conquer base after base of the AI Datajacks. They negotiated an uneasy truce on the edge of a large peninsula, with the DJs cornered in three small bases.

We evidently didn't keep a good watch on them, because one turn, my brother hit ENTER and watched as not one, not two, but THREE planet buster notifications came up. The DJs had somehow managed to build 3 planet buster warheads in their crippled economy and launch them - all hit former DJ bases with conquered secret projects in them.

Needless to say my brother and I cancelled the Charter fairly fastish and used the situation to our advantage. It's probably the first game we ever played where the final opposition city was wiped out by PB, not by conquest.

	06-03-2003 04:39									#8
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The AI will use PB's even with the Charter. (Actually, I have never played a game with the Charter repealled.) I used to be a target, but that also was a time when I still used the automatic design feature so that PB's would appear as a design.
In a game last week, one of my submissives PB'ed another AI faction.

From my experience, all AI factions will begin to build PB's when they get the tech. In virtualy every game that I play, the AI has PB's. I usually end up destroying them when at war.

As I said, the only thing I can think of that has changed about my style of play from an era where I routinely got hit 'til now is that now I never even design them, let alone build them.

	06-03-2003 05:37									#9
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I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Planetbusters, though I have never been hit by one built by the AI, mainly because I'm very thorough about checking AI production queues. I've popped one or two with probe teams, either in production or in launch.

One I've tried when I'm trying to get my PB arsenal built quickly is start several bomb prototypes concurrently, preferably in bases with Skunkworks (not an issue for Santiago). Then, Crawler upgrade and complete ALL of them while they're in prototype. This is a great trick for Morgan, or any other faction with a sizable cash surplus.

	06-03-2003 16:30									#10
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I remember one game i played, I was the uni in the middle continent and the hive had the ENTIRE big continent on the right (planet map) we had a cold war rivalry, which i lost. by the end of the game the hive had:

-About 50 Oribtal attack satelites, which made my PB redundant.
-about 250 isles of the deep all over the map which completely destroyed any chance of naval superiority
-a damn good economy and military, lots of alliences
-and I think in one war they did actually use a PB on me, infact I have been PB before that.

In the end I lost because they trancended before me.

but in end i can conclude that the AI does use PB and well.

	06-03-2003 16:43									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The AI seems to use PB only in two cases:

- AI losing the war so badly it cannot do anything about it
- AI was an atrocity victim and don't care about committing more

	06-03-2003 18:47									#12
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Saw Yang hit me once as the PK's. Never saw a PB in action before, and watch in sheer horror as my 4 SP, size 17 base was turned into crater lake.

Came back later and and turned the Hive into a sea base civilization.

	06-03-2003 19:05									#13
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I have had both Yang and Dedrie fire PBs at me, both with the charter still in place, and without any atrocity upon my part.

	06-03-2003 19:50									#14
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I've had PBs launched at me by Miriam and Deirdre, but in both cases the availability of ODPs nullified any real threat from them. Once you have the tech to make them, PBs pretty much become useless since it costs so much less to make the defense than it does the offense.

	06-03-2003 21:04									#15
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Yang! I have had serveral games where I had extended struggles with this gentleman. I am in one now in my current game. I am not winning.

But as to PBs, losing big time has nothing to do with it. I know, since I have completely destroyed many factions that had them.

	07-03-2003 16:41									#16
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Ned, how about going to global warming and flooding Yang? He's weak at terraforming. Go free market and max mineral production (boreholes/crawlers especially at one base), create lots of global damage, and keep 1t-2-2 (clean) garrisons available to kill the worm pops, money comes to you If you're really dedicated, play your game normally, and then try that strategy and tell us how it works. I've been curious how it would work, but I've always killed Yang (it's easy to get him to declare hostilities) with a Chopper-Fusion blitz

	07-03-2003 18:31									#17
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Ned, how about going to global warming and flooding Yang? He's weak at terraforming.

That being considered, all factions cave pretty quickly if you resort to such a tactic. I've never seen the AI factions raise/lower terrain, only build Pressure Domes to try to survive.

	07-03-2003 19:43									#18
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I've seen the AI build PB's in peace time with the charter still in place but i normally give them some tech to change their production or launch to take that base since i dont like the idea of watching my heavily packed high pop bases removed so easily.
Though recently in a game i was playing i had a treaty with deidre and since all other AI's bar 1 submissive were dead and i wanted an actual challenge i gave her all my techs, a few really good bases i held on her continent and plenty of cash then waited 10 turns for her to get some good military.
I still won fairly easily (too many elite clean chops nd drops i guess) but once id fought my way to her original main cities i noticed she was building a PB so i decided to let her finish it (she rush bought) and straight away launched it at me though my defense stations knocked it out it was the first and only time an AI has tried to PB me and i was really happy for some reason

Last edited by Lazerus on 07-03-2003 at 19:49

	07-03-2003 22:57									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia That being considered, all factions cave pretty quickly if you resort to such a tactic. I've never seen the AI factions raise/lower terrain, only build Pressure Domes to try to survive.

Well the pirates probably would love this tactic......

	07-03-2003 22:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus though my defense stations knocked it out it was the first and only time an AI has tried to PB me and i was really happy for some reason

Death wish?

	08-03-2003 03:26									#21
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I've always thought the motivation for A.I. PB launches was at least partially related to secret projects. Nearly every time I have been hit, no matter if I am higher or lower in the power graph, the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm is almost always the A.I. target of choice.

I've captured the HSA and had it immediately PB'ed by the A.I. who just lost it. Nuclear exchanges between the A.I. players also seem to center around it. Personally, I think the fact that I rarely build the HSA and am rarely PB'ed are related.

	08-03-2003 04:32									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 I've always thought the motivation for A.I. PB launches was at least partially related to secret projects. Nearly every time I have been hit, no matter if I am higher or lower in the power graph, the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm is almost always the A.I. target of choice. I've captured the HSA and had it immediately PB'ed by the A.I. who just lost it. Nuclear exchanges between the A.I. players also seem to center around it. Personally, I think the fact that I rarely build the HSA and am rarely PB'ed are related.

Static, Do you use the autodesign feature?

Do you build PB's yourself?

	08-03-2003 04:39									#23
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Has anyone ever seen the AI use their PBs against each other. Last month I watched as Yang PB two Spratan Bases. I was playing Pirates at the time and had treaties with both.

	08-03-2003 05:06									#24
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Yeah. My brother and I saw the Data Angels trapped in a classic "North Korea" situation - three remaining bases, and the rest all captured by the Free Drones (an AI).

One turn, shortly after PBs were prototyped by my brother's faction, the DataJacks built and simultaneously deployed three PBs, levelling three bases held by the Drones (all of which were theirs previously).

That was quite impressive. With a crippled economy, low police rating, and lousy industry, they managed to scrounge together the resources to build three nukes and use them.

	08-03-2003 05:22									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Static, Do you use the autodesign feature? Do you build PB's yourself?

I mostly use the autodesign feature, and vary building PBs in my games.

I'm not saying that the HSA will automatically result in a PB attack, but it seems in my games it is the likely target of oppurtunity for the A.I, if it in fact launches a PB.

	08-03-2003 20:51									#26
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Static, The fact that you do use the design queue and at times build PBs and do get PB seems to confirm my observations.

And yes, I see the AI use PBs against other AI factions. This is all I see though. I never get attacked.

	09-03-2003 23:48									#27
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In one of my very first games, I was playing as the Uni. Mid-game, had a vendetta against the Gaians, but they were mostly on the other side of the world from me. I had not launched any kind of offensive or anything against her, but was outpacing her in tech. Suddenly, WHAMO, down goes a size 14 with 3 SPs, including the HSA.

Needless to say, she didn't last much longer after that as everyone else started tearing her up. But I was stunned... unprovoked, and it was the Gaians!

I honestly can't remember being hit any other time. I was always on guard after that; if I saw someone building it, I'd do just about anything to take it out--probes sometimes, but my prefered method (if available) was Locusts.

Just thinking about that makes me want to fire up another game... haven't played in quite a while.

	10-03-2003 06:51									#28
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I got hit by 3, count 'em, 3 Believer Planet-Busters. They took out a coupla Secret Projects I built and had a hard time trying to recover after that barrage.

They swarmed me with low-tech troops and almost wiped me out. Lucky thing I had a coupla PB's myself.

	10-03-2003 09:21									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan I got hit by 3, count 'em, 3 Believer Planet-Busters.

Miriam using planet busters? I'm shocked, absolutely shocked!

	10-03-2003 15:11									#30
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I just finished a game that had some firsts for me. Not only did one of the alien factions PB the other, but when the other retaliated, their appears to have been a successful defense. The fact that the alien had used a PB was announced, but nothing happened.

Later, my own Pact Bros, Data, attacked one of my Orbital Defense Pods. This had never happened to me before. I retaliated with a couple of Fungal Missles, and they were shot down by her ODP. Finally, I took out the rest of her ODP using my own.

All of this was a first for me! I have been playing this game since 1999.