06-03-2003 02:06									#1
	An alien lands in Times Square and wants to get U.S. citizenship....can it? Put an end to popups!

Was thinking about slavery and then some wierd sci-fi things.......anyone have the legalese for what is a human?

Does it ever say anywhere that citizenship is only given to "people"?

Was thinking about slavery and then some wierd sci-fi things.......anyone have the legalese for what is a human?

Does it ever say anywhere that citizenship is only given to "people"?

What happens if an alien comes down from alpha-centauri tommorow and wants to apply for citizenship in the U.S.?

A mutant super-intelligent dog shows that it is sentient and self aware on the level of a human being, could it apply? Should it be able to?

Does our society value human beings, or the distinctive values of a human being-namely self awareness, intelligence and sentience?

Last edited by Vesayen on 06-03-2003 at 02:13

	06-03-2003 02:13									#2
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What country are you from Vesayen?

The US?

	06-03-2003 02:14									#3
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U.S. sorry should of specified.

	06-03-2003 02:15									#4
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Not too long ago, a US court ruled that X-Men action figures ARE NOT BASED ON HUMANS. Kinda' bizarre that human-like toys have to pay higher customs or whatever and not other kinds of "dolls." The toymaker set a rather disturbing precedent, but probably not very important anytime in the forseeable future, that "mutants" aren't considered Human. If one know's anything about Marvel Comic' X-Men, it's that they were fighting to be recognized as equals to the rest of Humanity.

Considering we're slowly entering the Genetic Age, we might find this ruling a little troublesome later on, but like I said, not for a very long time...

	06-03-2003 02:18									#5
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From the decision of Roe v. wade:

The Constitution does not define "person" in so many words. Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment contains three references to "person." The first, in defining "citizens," speaks of "persons born or naturalized in the United States." The word also appears both in the Due Process Clause and in the Equal Protection Clause. "Person" is used in other places in the Constitution: in the listing of qualifications for Representatives and Senators, Art. I, § 2, cl. 2, and § 3, cl. 3; in the Apportionment Clause, Art. I, § 2, cl. 3;(53) in the Migration and Importation provision, Art. I, § 9, cl. 1; in the Emolument Clause, Art. I, § 9, cl. 8; in the Electors provisions, Art. II, § 1, cl. 2, and the superseded cl. 3; in the provision outlining qualifications for the office of President, Art. II, § 1, cl. 5; in the Extradition provisions, Art. IV, § 2, cl. 2, and the superseded Fugitive Slave Clause 3; and in the Fifth, Twelfth, and Twenty-second Amendments, as well as in §§ 2 and 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. But in nearly all these instances, the use of the word is such that it has application only postnatally. None indicates, with any assurance, that it has any possible pre-natal application.(54)[p158]

http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/410b4.htm

In short, one does not attain legal personhood, until birth.

	06-03-2003 02:26									#6
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Obiwan -

Does that mean that a genetically enhanced and artifically created human-like being could become a citizen of US, if it was created there?

	06-03-2003 02:28									#7
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 From the decision of Roe v. wade: The Constitution does not define "person" in so many words. Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment contains three references to "person." The first, in defining "citizens," speaks of "persons born or naturalized in the United States." The word also appears both in the Due Process Clause and in the Equal Protection Clause. "Person" is used in other places in the Constitution: in the listing of qualifications for Representatives and Senators, Art. I, § 2, cl. 2, and § 3, cl. 3; in the Apportionment Clause, Art. I, § 2, cl. 3;(53) in the Migration and Importation provision, Art. I, § 9, cl. 1; in the Emolument Clause, Art. I, § 9, cl. 8; in the Electors provisions, Art. II, § 1, cl. 2, and the superseded cl. 3; in the provision outlining qualifications for the office of President, Art. II, § 1, cl. 5; in the Extradition provisions, Art. IV, § 2, cl. 2, and the superseded Fugitive Slave Clause 3; and in the Fifth, Twelfth, and Twenty-second Amendments, as well as in §§ 2 and 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment. But in nearly all these instances, the use of the word is such that it has application only postnatally. None indicates, with any assurance, that it has any possible pre-natal application.(54)[p158] http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/410b4.htm In short, one does not attain legal personhood, until birth.

So what if your not a human being? This isnt about abortion heh!

	06-03-2003 02:34									#8
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Little green men coming and applying for citizenship?

	06-03-2003 02:36									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Little green men coming and applying for citizenship?

Exactly.

	06-03-2003 02:37									#10
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Vesayen:

It's about legal personhood.

Roe sets legal personhood at birth, allowing for unborn children to be aborted and so applies to your question.

Solver:

A plant once ran for a US government position. As a 'naturalised' citizen of over 20 years of age, they had great difficulty in removing the votes cast.

I don't think there is a definition of humanness within the US constitution, but someone more legally versed than I should be able to answer your question.

	06-03-2003 02:41									#11
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quote: A plant once ran for a US government position. As a 'naturalised' citizen of over 20 years of age, they had great difficulty in removing the votes cast.

Any links on the story?

	06-03-2003 03:01									#12
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Found it!

A ficus plant in the 'Garden State' appropriately.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/060100-02.htm

	06-03-2003 03:55									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen quote: Originally posted by Solver Little green men coming and applying for citizenship? Exactly.

Well if we are considered the same species, I would consider green homeboys human.

And scientific definition of species is anything you can make sweet love to and have juniors (that are capable of having juniors of their own)...

	06-03-2003 03:57									#14
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Isn't it a white guy with an income above 100,000 dollars a year?

At least that's what seems to count in practice (Yuk Yuk).

	06-03-2003 04:00									#15
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Calc II:

quote: And scientific definition of species is anything you can make sweet love to and have juniors (that are capable of having juniors of their own)...

Legal definitions anybody?
Sometimes the law trails science.

Agathon:

Don't give up your day job.

	06-03-2003 04:03									#16
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[fiction]
Terrible news guys. ONe of the fictus plant candidate has been... assasinated. The assasin smuggled weed killer into the campaign rally and fired at the candidate this morning. [/fiction]

	06-03-2003 04:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Calc II: Legal definitions anybody? Sometimes the law trails science. Agathon: Don't give up your day job.

I said PERSONALLY I would accpet them as humans if they were the same species.

And I provided a defintion of species in case someone didnt know.

I agree with the white male w/ 100,000 income for the legal defintion.