06-03-2003 03:55									#1
	Discussion on how to win via UN vote (if we are going for that) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Discussion has commenced in the chat on how we are going to win via the UN vote, and the best way to butter up the AI to vote for us.

I don't want to step on the FAM's shoes, so if he starts an alternate thread this one is toast, but everyone should read this thread. It is very very useful on how to improve your rep with the AI.

Keep in mind this is the unpatched version of PtW tested, but certainly the differences with our version will not be huge.

Here it is AI attitude

God Bless you BamSpeedy.

	06-03-2003 05:42									#2
	Kowtow Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

WOW
First I must say, BamSpeedy, thank you for an amazing piece of work. The research and documentation is supurb. Quite helpful to understanding the "mystique" behind AI relations.

MWIA.... Thank you for the fine tip.

Apoloyonians, visit our neighbors and and witness their science.

Mss
[ed]sp

	06-03-2003 06:29									#3
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Based upon what I just read, It seems relativly simple.

(Pre Turn 0)
1. First pick an enemy and prepare (insure no DealPT).
2. Insure ALL foreign workers are intergrated (or disbanded, though disbanding would be illegal).

(Turn 0)
3. Gifts to all maybe some luxes, 100L pre trade max. Use multiple times no more than 1000 total (-10 max)

(Turn 1, having achieved Fission)
4. Declare war and secure multiple (say all AI) alliances (resource ok) against said whiping post. (-2 for war with common and -3 for alliance)

5. Secure MPPS with all alliance nations (-10)

6. Obtain ROPs with all overseas civs and Really consider the climate for ROPS with all Alliance nations. Anyone who is afraid of sneak attack, it does not matter with our forces set up for distributed, even defence. We do not have to commit any troops any where besides our cities. Also, the MPPs will work in our favor here. (-5)


We have a power lead, so most (MPP and alliance) are halved, I assume gift is constant. This group of diplomatic moves yield a modifier of -7-5-10= -22 or -5-5-5 = -15. The ROP is KEY, it dosent get halved. I expect an improvment of -15 to -22 (depending on the gifts) in regards to each AI we do this with. I haven't checked the save, but I recalled most AIs liked us, we really behaved our selves (except for a few razings..-3 I think). I do not think most are not furious (11+).


7. Use Na'mer to rush the UN.

(Turn 2)
8. Hold vote. Win, Lose or Inconclusive. With the We will win and no one will attack us. (-11 is gracious, I will bet you we need at least -5 or -6 to get a vote.)

We can pass a bill enabling the complete mobilization of all our production capacity to the immediate obliteration of any civ who sneak attacks, win or draw, we will neither loose nor get attacked.
That could be fun.

Mss

	06-03-2003 07:20									#4
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Remember that disbanding the workers counts as killing them, so we certainly can't do that.

	06-03-2003 21:16									#5
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1 word.,......Money

	10-03-2003 13:32									#6
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Bribing the other civs has not been the way we have played so far, and for that reason, I am against it. Besides, bribing doesn't guarantee their vote for us. Bamspeedy did a great job on the chart.

	17-03-2003 07:23									#7
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Thanks for the review, MSS. Makes it easier than reading the whole thing again (though I will do that too!).

As far as I see it, we must start out Term X by reintegrating any foreign workers not already in a city. Then we will need to decide whether to choose a civ and ally against them, or to bribe our way into alliances.
Tech and maybe lux gifts should be made (another poll).

Lastly we need a backup plan. If we don't win via UN vote, we need to go for the ship or for extermination of our enemies. I don't think Domination is disabled in this game, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get the required territory to win by this way.

Polls and discussion to this effect will be up within a day. if you feel like continuing a more specific discussion about these issues, please be my guest.

	17-03-2003 07:55									#8
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quote: Originally posted by kring Bribing the other civs has not been the way we have played so far, and for that reason, I am against it. Besides, bribing doesn't guarantee their vote for us. Bamspeedy did a great job on the chart.

Are you saying that people can't just decide to become philanthropists spontaneously? It is quite common for people to start such behaviour once they reach a certain level of personal success, and begin to develop a desire to help others. Why can't we, as a nation, do the same?

	17-03-2003 08:38									#9
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Thanks for the review, MSS. Makes it easier than reading the whole thing again (though I will do that too!). As far as I see it, we must start out Term X by reintegrating any foreign workers not already in a city. Then we will need to decide whether to choose a civ and ally against them, or to bribe our way into alliances. Tech and maybe lux gifts should be made (another poll). Lastly we need a backup plan. If we don't win via UN vote, we need to go for the ship or for extermination of our enemies. I don't think Domination is disabled in this game, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get the required territory to win by this way. Polls and discussion to this effect will be up within a day. if you feel like continuing a more specific discussion about these issues, please be my guest.

Japan is the easy target, a few civs are even at war with them already as well as us. This should make for some easy alliances.

Be wary of MPP's, though, it seems several are at war with Babylon as well. Im sure Togas has all this under control, though.

	17-03-2003 09:11									#10
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The old avatar is back!
MWIA, Togas, Aggie and Aidun... Could you do the same?

	17-03-2003 09:16									#11
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Aro, your perfect! Could you take a look at the city planner avatar and change it to DM for Aidun? Their in the Govt Thread...

	17-03-2003 09:20									#12
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Sure, UnOrthOdOx! Looking at it right now...

Edited: Ok, I think I can do it tomorrow night.

Last edited by Aro on 17-03-2003 at 10:15

	17-03-2003 11:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Are you saying that people can't just decide to become philanthropists spontaneously? It is quite common for people to start such behaviour once they reach a certain level of personal success, and begin to develop a desire to help others. Why can't we, as a nation, do the same?

It isn't that common. If a person is going to be that way, then they have been doing such (just on a smaller scale) before they made it big. Once they make it big, they are just able to help more. And we wouldn't be trying to help others, just trying to buy votes; big difference.

To me, to try bribing our way to a win is a cheap victory, and there is no guarantee of winning. We have had such a great game so far, and to win this way is a big disappointment. If we took our chances and went for a vote without bribing, that would be different.

	17-03-2003 18:50									#14
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As ever, kring, other opinions are welcome. Dissent is good.....

This of course means there will be a poll on whether to use bribery or not. For the moment consider this thread the place to discuss the pros and cons of such an issue.

With so many starting to see victory as a given, I think perhaps attempting to finish as soon as we can is the best idea. It may be a little cheap, but what more is there to do? Militarily take the world or wait until the spacerace. Spacerace wouldn't be all that interesting in a game already seemingly on its last turns (at least in terms of the participation rate), and we certainly need to keep interest going. Military victory would be more exciting, but just imagine the huge amount of time needed for a DG campaign in a world of this size. It might not be feasible. It's long enough in my own games at this point!

I favour finishing however we can right now, and starting the next game with the knowledge we can do that, and trying something else. And don't forget we might just not be able to get the UN victory, in which case this could be a long month....


And Aro - I have a surprise.... I have never done this before.

	17-03-2003 19:09									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Since I have had 2 people ask now,

YOU CAN GET THE CUSTOM AVATARS IN THE TERM X GOVT THREAD. (Aidun, Aro is working on yours. Sorry, these were from the Old Con)

	17-03-2003 19:52									#16
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UnOrthO, these are my first attempts... I've tried to combine the Public Works and the City Planning avatars.
It's not too good, but... it's very difficult to work on such little images...

The first one:

Attachment: domesticminister.gif
This has been downloaded 105 time(s).

	17-03-2003 19:53									#17
	Remove this text

...And the second:

Attachment: domesticminister2.gif
This has been downloaded 105 time(s).

	17-03-2003 20:17									#18
	Got spare money?

They both look great!

Might want to look at the historian, though. It has the Pyramids on it...
If you really want, you could probably edit up some of those for the RG's and Judges as well. Don't know how many are interested in that, though.

BTW

Looking good MrWIA and Togas!

	18-03-2003 03:10									#19
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WE need to find a way to bribe the French......Oh, wait we already wiped out the French in this game.

	24-03-2003 04:20									#20
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Hi,
Do anyone know where I can find Polish civ mod?

	24-03-2003 04:24									#21
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Try the Civ3-Creation forum.