06-03-2003 04:35									#1
	Corporations Fined for Sharing Information Remove this text

ST. LOUIS (Reuters) - Hughes Electronics Corp. and Boeing Co.'s Boeing Satellite Systems unit said Wednesday they agreed to a $32 million civil penalty with the U.S. Department of State, arising out of allegations that the companies might have illegally shared sensitive space technology with China in the 1990s.

The penalty includes the payment of $20 million in cash over seven years, $8 million to strengthen export compliance programs and $4 million already credited for past expenses on export program enhancements, the companies said. Hughes and the Boeing unit will appoint a third party to monitor export compliance.

"Hughes Electronics Corp. and Boeing Satellite Systems acknowledge the nature and seriousness of the offenses charged by the Department of State, including the harm such offenses could cause to the security and foreign policy interests of the United States," said Jack Shaw, Hughes's chief executive, and Dave Ryan, Boeing Satellite's vice president and general manager, in a joint statement.

The companies said they regretted not obtaining necessary licenses. The government's charges related primarily to the Boeing unit's involvement in reviews of two failed launches of commercial communications satellites on Chinese rockets in 1995 and 1996, the companies said.

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	06-03-2003 04:37									#2
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If you were anybody else I'd assume you were giving the thumbs-down to Boeing and Hughes...

	06-03-2003 04:39									#3
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Actually, in a way, I am. Boeing and Hughes should probably not sell some sorts of technology to morally bankrupt regimes such as that of the PRC. But the US government, in my opinion, shouldn't stop them, either.

	06-03-2003 04:41									#5
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ACK!

	06-03-2003 04:41									#6
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I think we should pass a law forcing US companies to share all their information with China.

	06-03-2003 04:52									#7
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Did boeing acquire the space technology because the US government funded them or help them in anyway?

if not.

	06-03-2003 04:55									#8
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quote: Did boeing acquire the space technology because the US government funded them or help them in anyway?

Those kind of things were usually commisioned. Anywho, it could still be closely related to rocketry and weapon production, it is sensitive information. Even in America you will get smacked if you learn how to make a nuclear bomb, and then go to a communist country and help them make one, or even sell them a book on the matter... National Security Issues or something.

	06-03-2003 04:57									#9
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**** national security - that is only an issue because of our aggressive (and now, it seems, almost unilateral) foreign policy.

	06-03-2003 05:01									#11
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd **** national security - that is only an issue because of our aggressive (and now, it seems, almost unilateral) foreign policy.

I call BS.

	06-03-2003 05:03									#12
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So you're saying that there would ever have been a threat of nuclear war involving the US if the US stayed isolationist?

If that's what you're saying I call BS.

	06-03-2003 05:05									#13
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If the US stayed isolationist we may never have invented nuclear weapons... Then where would we be?

	06-03-2003 05:06									#14
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd So you're saying that there would ever have been a threat of nuclear war involving the US if the US stayed isolationist?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Kindly avoid responding to things I didn't say.

PS Where do you get this stayed isolationist line from?

	06-03-2003 05:08									#15
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Japher,

quote: If the US stayed isolationist we may never have invented nuclear weapons... Then where would we be?

A better place?

DD,

quote: No, that's not what I'm saying. Kindly avoid responding to things I didn't say.

Then what are you saying? I said that national security would not be an issue if the US was not aggressive, and you called BS. I don't quite see how you can call BS on that - if the US wasn't aggressive in the past, and currently, it wouldn't face foreign threats today. At least not any I can see.

	06-03-2003 05:08									#16
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quote: PS Where do you get this stayed isolationist line from?

From my bag of "What we should have done if we were acting morally".

	06-03-2003 05:11									#17
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Then what are you saying?

Most people tend to frown on people taking thier sensetive technology without permission.

	06-03-2003 05:18									#18
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True, but the federal government should not be in the business of telling corporations what they can and cannot do. Nor should the federal government be in the business of giving money (especially money w/ strings attached) to any corporation, for any reason, because that's not a proper function of government.

	06-03-2003 05:20									#19
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quote: Nor should the federal government be in the business of giving money (especially money w/ strings attached) to any corporation, for any reason, because that's not a proper function of government.

I concur with this.

quote: A better place?

But not with this.

Anyway, I am staying out of this one.

Toodles.

	06-03-2003 05:24									#20
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Nor should the federal government be in the business of giving money (especially money w/ strings attached) to any corporation,

Isn't that called a contract?

	06-03-2003 05:26									#21
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quote: Isn't that called a contract?

Sure, but funding a contract with my money without my consent is called stealing

	06-03-2003 05:28									#22
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd A better place?

You think we'd be in a better place if Hitler, Stalin and crew had developed nukes and we hadn't? Ohhhhhh David...

	06-03-2003 05:29									#23
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Sure, but funding a contract with my money without my consent is called stealing

You did consent, by being part of a democracy in which elected representatives made the contract.

And please don't drive on Federally-funded roads then, since you obviously are morally opposed to them.

	06-03-2003 06:59									#24
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Nor should the federal government be in the business of giving money (especially money w/ strings attached) to any corporation, for any reason, because that's not a proper function of government.

One of the stupidest things you've ever said.

Basically, you're saying the government can't pay for anything.

	06-03-2003 07:11									#25
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when the government gives corporations welfare, that is wrong.

	06-03-2003 07:12									#26
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 when the government gives corporations welfare, that is wrong.

But that's not what he said. He specifically said "for any reason", whether it be corporate welfare (which I do not support) or paying for corporate products...

	06-03-2003 07:17									#27
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Actually, in a way, I am. Boeing and Hughes should probably not sell some sorts of technology to morally bankrupt regimes such as that of the PRC. But the US government, in my opinion, shouldn't stop them, either.

Morally bankrupt?

* Urban Ranger looks at GWB

	06-03-2003 08:28									#28
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd True, but the federal government should not be in the business of telling corporations what they can and cannot do.

A good libertarian knows that corporations are creations of the government. They don't exist in nature. The government sanctions them, the government provides them with corporate welfare (especially defense related firms like these) and the government has every reason and justification in telling them what to do.

I'm quite frankly not a big fan of corporations. I think they are formed by the state to guarantee certain priviledges to some people and deny them to others.

	06-03-2003 10:43									#29
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quote: You think we'd be in a better place if Hitler, Stalin and crew had developed nukes and we hadn't? Ohhhhhh David...

Stalin couldn't have developed atomic weapons without espionage from the Manhatten Project.

The Nazis were nowhere close to a bomb, and the British had destroyed the last of their heavy water supplies, so they were screwed.

Almost all of the credible physicists and scientists needed for this project were in the US.

UR,

quote: Morally bankrupt? * Urban Ranger looks at GWB

Hey, I don't defend Bush, either. But there's no denying the fact that the PRC government is also morally bankrupt.

	06-03-2003 16:36									#30
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Stalin couldn't have developed atomic weapons without espionage from the Manhatten Project. The Nazis were nowhere close to a bomb, and the British had destroyed the last of their heavy water supplies, so they were screwed. Almost all of the credible physicists and scientists needed for this project were in the US.

If the U.S. had remained isolationist, as you desire so much, Hitler or Stalin would have been able to develop atomic weapons unimpeded. Maybe not by August 1945, but they would have done so. I fail to see why we would benefit from not having nukes while the Nazis would...