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DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:27
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quote:
Cite me an example, where the U.S. has ever been the aggressor.

The Balkan adventures.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:26
  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:27
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Does Hussein enslave his people?

That's 1.

2 & 3 Likely Vietnam.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:26
  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:29
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quote:
Cite me an example, where the U.S. has ever been the aggressor.


The Mexican War.

Sorry, Sloww, but #3 was a bridge too far...

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:29 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Now you're treading on uninformed, and dangerous, ground.

monkspider is offline monkspider
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:33
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Sloww, of course there are countless examples of American aggression. As far as your main question of an American leader killing American civillians on the scale of Sadaam kiling his, I can think of no comparable examples. This does not really matter. Regardless of whether Sadaam is a bad guy or not, that does not mean that we should launch an aggrefssive war against the Iraqi people. If we were really interested in helping the Iraqi people, there are countless ways to peacefully do so, if we wanted to minimize the tyrannical tendencies of the Hussein regime, there are countless ways to do so peacefully. God never gives us a problem that can only be resolved through violence.

Last edited by monkspider on 06-03-2003 at 11:52

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:36
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quote:
If we were really interested in helping the Iraqi people, there are countless ways to peacefully do so, if we wanted to minimize the tyrannical tendencies of the Hussein regime, there are countless ways to do so peacefully.


Name some...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
God never gives us a problem that can only be resolved through violence.

World War II.

monkspider is offline monkspider
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
If we were really interested in helping the Iraqi people, there are countless ways to peacefully do so, if we wanted to minimize the tyrannical tendencies of the Hussein regime, there are countless ways to do so peacefully.


Name some...

There are always an infinite number of ways, whether I personally am able to think of any or not. Surely you do not think that violence is the only way to accomplish any of the previously stated ideals?

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:41
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quote:
There are always an infinite number of ways, whether I personally am able to think of any or not.


So you can't name a single one of your "countless ways"? I figured as much, but I just wanted to make sure...

monkspider is offline monkspider
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:46
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc

World War II.



I once believed that some wars truly are unavoidable, and WW II is the one that I always thought of. Over time, I have realized that there is no such thing as an inevitable war. If the entente were more concillatory at Versailles there would have been no World War II, if powers such as France decieded to abandon the Versailles treaty in the twenties and pursued a policy of friendship with Germany there would have been no world war two, even after Hitler came to power and even after he invaded France, there was still a way to defeat him through peaceful means. It may seem impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:46 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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The Mexican War was not an act of aggression.
If it had been, they'd be speaking English, rather than trying to force Spanish down my throat.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:47
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World War II.

DD:

For the US?

Stay out of the way of the Soviet Union. Why do they even need the Yanks beyond mercantile support?

monkspider is offline monkspider
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
There are always an infinite number of ways, whether I personally am able to think of any or not.


So you can't name a single one of your "countless ways"? I figured as much, but I just wanted to make sure...


Drake, there is a whole country of great thinkers out there. I could offer theoretical solutions, but that is besides the point. There are always an infinite range of possibilities to every situation, and with Iraq it is no different.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:50
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quote:
The Mexican War was not an act of aggression.
If it had been, they'd be speaking English


The American Southwest is speaking English...

I don't think the Mexican War was wrong, Sloww, but a pretty good case can be made for it being aggressive.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:52
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quote:
There are always an infinite range of possibilities to every situation, and with Iraq it is no different.


Do you actually believe this tripe or are you just trying to confuse me with childish platitudes?

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:52 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Ladies and Gentlemen, SlowwHand has left the building.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:54
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quote:
Ladies and Gentlemen, SlowwHand has left the building.


The King is gone...

monkspider is offline monkspider
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 11:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
There are always an infinite range of possibilities to every situation, and with Iraq it is no different.


Do you actually believe this tripe or are you just trying to confuse me with childish platitudes?

Do you disagree my friend? Do you not think that there are ways other than through war to accomplish the ideals that the Iraqi War is said to stand for (helping the Iraqi people, bringing them democracy, and so forth). If you do, then I think we are in agreement. And yes, I believe it as much as I believe anything, I am sure that you will as well, one day.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:01
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Stay out of the way of the Soviet Union.

We'd have a global competitor (either Nazi Germany or USSR) to deal with and it would be in a much better position to oppose the US on the international stage if the US completely sat out of the war.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Cite me an example, where the U.S. has ever been the aggressor.


Panama
Grenada
1812
Vietnam

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
1812

The Brits provoked that one by enslaving our sailors.

quote:
Grenada

They were the ones threatening the lives of American civilians.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:07
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
The Brits provoked that one by enslaving our sailors.

quote:
Grenada

They were the ones threatening the lives of American civilians.


Oh yeah, likely story.

monkspider is offline monkspider
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:07
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re: the matter of aggression, of course there are enough examples of American aggression to fill a rather healthy sized tome. I didn't think Sloww was seriously asking about American aggression in general, but rather American aggression toward it's own people, or else I would have addressed the question in greater depth earlier. America is a country that was founded on aggression, rose to prominence through aggression, and is likely to one day, unless it changes course, to be destroyed by it's aggression.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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Question  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Oh yeah, likely story.

Which one?

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:11
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quote:
And yes, I believe it as much as I believe anything, I am sure that you will as well, one day.


I highly doubt that...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:12
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quote:
Originally posted by monkspider
I didn't think Sloww was seriously asking about American aggression in general, but rather American aggression toward it's own people


For starters:

Driving the Native Americans off their lands
Rounding up the Japaneses during WWII
Being nasty to leftists during the era of McCarthyism
Racial profiling - now

monkspider is offline monkspider
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I highly doubt that...

I am sure that you do, but at the same time, I can offer you a 100% guarantee that one day we will be in agreement.

Straybow is offline Straybow
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SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:20 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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quote:
God never gives us a problem that can only be resolved through violence.
God didn't "give" us a problem, man made it. It is saying, "Kill them all and let God sort them out," except letting somebody else do the killing. Cowardice in the name of God is yet cowardice.
quote:
I once believed that some wars truly are unavoidable, and WW II is the one that I always thought of. …there was still a way to defeat [Hitler] through peaceful means. It may seem impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.
There are so many ignorant follies in that paragraph I sit agape. You managed to get pretty much every misconception about the rise of Nazism into one run-on sentence. Amazing.

monkspider is offline monkspider
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
quote:
God never gives us a problem that can only be resolved through violence.
God didn't "give" us a problem, man made it. It is saying, "Kill them all and let God sort them out," except letting somebody else do the killing. Cowardice in the name of God is yet cowardice.

Of course God didn't literally "give" us a problem, in fact, all of our problems are inevitably and intrinsically linked to falliing short of God's perfection. But on the same coin, despite seperarting ourselves from god most of the time in our actions, God is never seperate from us and always helps us to make this life offer the most spiritual growth possible. So, God will help out those who desire to grow closer to him.
I am honestly not sure what you meant with the "kill em
all" analogy. But in regards to the cowardice comment. What do you mean by cowardice? Being scared of the ghost in your closet? or being too afraid to ask out that girl sitting in front of you? Or do you think that peace is cowardice, that refusing to resolve questions through violence is cowardice, if so then you are not correct. Pacifism, love, brotherhood, if one can attain to these ideals despite the pressures in this world to do otherwise, then that man is the most courageous of all.
quote:

quote:
I once believed that some wars truly are unavoidable, and WW II is the one that I always thought of. …there was still a way to defeat [Hitler] through peaceful means. It may seem impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.
There are so many ignorant follies in that paragraph I sit agape. You managed to get pretty much every misconception about the rise of Nazism into one run-on sentence. Amazing.

In what way?

God bless.

orange is offline orange
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 06-03-2003 12:37 Visit orange's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
I defy you to show me one, just one, example of a U.S. leader doing to his people, what Hussein has done to his.


Internment of Japanese during World War II. Slavery from beginnings to 1863, Jim Crow for another century.

quote:
Tell me when, the U.S. has done to another country, what Hussein has done to his own.


Japan, Aug. 1945. To be fair, however, Hussein doesn't nearly compare. To name one.

quote:
Cite me an example, where the U.S. has ever been the aggressor.


Mexican-American. Spanish-American.

 
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