06-03-2003 08:48									#1
	How the H*** does this work? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Riddle me this

Warlord level (been awhile since I've played) ME: The iroquois. 16 other civs in the game.

By no means did I have a tech lead, but I was trying. I was on one continent with the indians (wiped out early in the game) the spanish (they kicked the indian's butts, not me), the Greeks and the americans....everyone else was on another large continent.

After the other continent was "discovered" I checked every turn to see who had what advance so I could try and grab it and of course attempt to build GW's before the AI.

The only advance I didn't have, but the chinese had, was gunpowder. However I was only a few turns away from it. Next turn they trade it to me for a lot of gold and some wine.

Next turn they have Banking, free artistry and music theory...and astronomy.

Now if they got it from another AI, I'd like to know who, since no one else had any of those advance a turn earlier....but it gets worse!

A turn afterwards the chinese add printing press to their load.

Am I not seeing something? How did they manage to get all of those advance in less than ten turns?

	06-03-2003 11:45									#2
	Suffering from ads?

That is exactly it you are not seeig something. If you are presuming that the only tech they have is what you see for trade in the advisor screen. It will often not show you all that they have, so you can not assume that the list showing 4 items is all they know.

	06-03-2003 13:57									#3
	Remove this text

If you don't have the right prerequisite for a tech, you won't be able to know wether another civ has it. They can only offer you techs that you have the previous ones for, not the ones that come after.

	06-03-2003 14:34									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

Exact- for example, if you're stuck with feudalism you will see parallel advances only (chivalry and alike) but of course they may have astronomy, chemistry and even more

	06-03-2003 15:05									#5
	Re: How the H*** does this work? Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by D4everman The only advance I didn't have, but the chinese had, was gunpowder. However I was only a few turns away from it. Next turn they trade it to me for a lot of gold and some wine. Next turn they have Banking, free artistry and music theory...and astronomy. Now if they got it from another AI, I'd like to know who, since no one else had any of those advance a turn earlier....but it gets worse! A turn afterwards the chinese add printing press to their load. Am I not seeing something? How did they manage to get all of those advance in less than ten turns?

Printing press is a prerequisite for Free Artistry. So something is wrong in your description.

Are you sure you bought gunpowder and not education. Education is the prerequisite for Music Theory, Banking and Astronomy, so that would make more sense.

Also don't forget that different AI's might have discovered the techs during their turn and traded between each other.

	06-03-2003 17:27									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm sure it was gunpowder not education.

But your explanation makes sense. I didn't know I couldn't "see" things unless I had the pre reqs. Still, it seemed kinda strange to me. Oh well, I guess I need to work on my researching in the game.

	07-03-2003 03:23									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by D4everman But your explanation makes sense. I didn't know I couldn't "see" things unless I had the pre reqs. Still, it seemed kinda strange to me. Oh well, I guess I need to work on my researching in the game.

That's so you can't buy gunpowder without previously getting invention. If you could see both, then you could ignore the chain

	07-03-2003 08:33									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That would be nice.

	12-03-2003 13:10									#9
	Tired of ads?

That's how it was in earlier games -- and it could be bloody annoying.

	12-03-2003 19:14									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It could also allow you to catch up on a serious tech lead. Imagine stealing advanced flight when you conquered a badly defended city with a legion.

I like the current model better.

	12-03-2003 23:57									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Me too, but I would like to see the whole chain of knowledge that the enemy has.

I sure don't miss, though, the "showing up" pattern of Civ2.

"Be astonished as we show our prowess with Philosophy. No scribes allowed."

My usual response was something like "thank you guys, I really think that's nice. Now give it to me and shut up. Hmm, ok, we'll fight, if you insist."