07-03-2003 01:32									#1
	Sadly disappointed with the combat model Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Before I start with my topic please understand that I am not bashing Moo3 or QS. I actually am starting to like this game but still fear that in the end I will regret not taking the game back. Hopefully things will change.

Now on to the topic.

Does everyone agree that the combat portion of this game is a little disappointing? The graphics are abysmal as is the ability to control what's going on. Furthermore there doesn't seem to be any real usefull information about what is happening. I just fought my first battle last night and was shocked to see my fleet instantly destroyed by what seemed like a swarm of enemy fighters during a planet assualt.

If any of you recall that failed game from Lucas Arts, Star Wars Rebellion, you will remember that the battle portion of that game was far superior to what Moo3's is. At least the graphics were 10x better than Moo3's and the control of your fleets/ships were much better. It was easy to see what was happening to your ships so that you could plan for the next encounter. I have yet to understand what is happening in Moo3 but I will admit I am still relatively new at this game.

What are your thoughts and can anyone shed some light on how the combat model is supposed to work in Moo3?

Thanks in advance.

	07-03-2003 02:40									#2
	Got spare money?

Moo3 does kind of remind me of Star Wars Rebellion. A good game somewhere, burried deep within an atrocious interface and a totally broken AI.

Well, SWR was kinda pretty, too.

	07-03-2003 03:11									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I seem to be in the minority on this one, but I think the combat looks pretty cool. Granted, it will never win any artistic awards.

	07-03-2003 03:22									#4
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I can live with the graphics, but I need to be able to see what is on the map. It is so painful to try and find the Planet or the ships, scrolling all around.
They need to do something about the colony ships as a impenetratable defense.
I attack the planet and if they manage to get a colony ship there, I can not attack it and the run is a Draw. I am now not permit to attack the planet, I do not get the option.
If I am missing something (again) please tell me.

	07-03-2003 05:30									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The combat would be extremely simple to be upgraded in a patch. Hell I've made a better 2d combat in visual basic under direct x. What I'd suggest to them is

1) increase the size of _everything_
2) give familiar reactions to commands such as attack move, and guard.

	07-03-2003 06:33									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think that being able to pause in combat is very important as well.

Your scanners pick up their ships but you literally have no time to see what they have before you are in the middle of battle.

ACK!

	07-03-2003 06:39									#7
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

How about the ability to look at what I'm fighting? I'm not talking scanning to the level that MoO2 did, but in real time, I CAN'T take the time to zoom in to try to figure out the size of the ships I'm up against, and it isn't visually obvious, especially since I spend most of my time zoomed all the way out.

Being able to pause in SP mode would be very nice too, especially if I can scroll around, figure out where everything is, and plan out my battle. I'm not a twitch-fighter, if I wanted that i wouldn't be playing a turn-based strategy game. Talk about caving in to the masses who insist on having something without understanding what it is they want.

	07-03-2003 10:36									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree... the main problem with tactical combat is that I can't tell what all of those pixels are!

I love the MODEL for how tactical combat works in this game, it has HUGE promise.

It's just that it could really use a way to let you figure out "which way is up" (where the planet is) when you enter the combat rather than wasting time looking for it..... AND it could use a pause function. Not for multiplayer, perhaps, but CERTAINLY for single-player. Hell, even Homeworld had a pause function

	07-03-2003 18:27									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Good points brought up by all

I agree, a pause function and the ability to discern what is happening on the battlefield is a must. I understand QS decision not to make it possible for the player to control every ship individually but at least give us the ability to analyze the battle. Right now there simply is no time to see what is happening.

	07-03-2003 19:02									#10
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I have to say, I am dissapointed too. I have heard of things like several battlegroups fighting, you able to control it nicely, hiding forces behind a moon ...

All that is more or less missing.

Pause, wont happen, maybe only in SP, definately not in MP.

Right now I have to zoom like crazy to find the enemy. I expected a lot more. I liket MOO2 combat better. Although they said youŽll have more tactical options in MOO3 i fail to see those. Somebody correct me, please...

	07-03-2003 19:07									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You can zoom in on combat?!? How can I do it?

	07-03-2003 19:21									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Daz:


You're right I seem to remember reading somewhere about how the new combat model in Moo3 would give you more tactical options. This obviously is not the case. Anyone out there have some insights to how combat works in Moo3? I have a bad feeling that we are not missing anything here, there just isn't much to combat in Moo3.

I liked the combat system in Moo2 but I can live with the realtime model in Moo3 as long as they fix the issues discussed here.

	07-03-2003 19:26									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: You can zoom in on combat?!? How can I do it?

someone didnt look at the keyboard shortcuts guide

_ zoom out
= zoom in
[ rotae right
] rotate left
; pitch up
' pitch down

	07-03-2003 19:32									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: someone didnt look at the keyboard shortcuts guide

*spanks Harry Seldon*

Yea, we demand to know how to hide behing a moon and jump your enemy!!!

It was promised to us...

	07-03-2003 20:59									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

MarkG, missing the zoom is kind of understandable, since they list two combinations for zooming, and the first pair that I tried (+/- on the numeric keyboard, since it would be easier to find if I'm mousing around) doesn't work (at least on my machine).

	07-03-2003 22:01									#16
	Remove this text

quote: +/- on the numeric keyboard

havent tried it, perhaps it needs numlock to be on?

	07-03-2003 23:02									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I wish I knew how to tell what the combat will consist of, before I attack. I may know they have 3 ships, but are they better than mine? What about planetary defense? I went along busting planets with no loss and then got one TF clobbered. I won the battle, but lost 9 ships. I have no idea what changed. What weapons were used or what.
We need a battle scanner. I think it is fine if the stealth/cloak vs scanner is ever changing. IOW if I have cloak X and you have scan B, you can not see me before hand, but there must be a scan Z that can see all. The scan tech should be part of the shipyard tech and come with each of those upgrades. IOW all players get all eventually. Cloak can be hit and miss, you do not always get all.
I really hate it when a fleet is in my system and I have no way to know what it is comprised of, why? So they have 3 ships and I have no idea if my ships can interdict them or not.
That and the ease of which you can miss out on a bombardment turn, sucks.

	07-03-2003 23:09									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Harry Seldon You can zoom in on combat?!? How can I do it?

If you've got a wheel mouse, just roll back or forward to zoom in or out, the command card lists the keyboard keys needed, but I think its something real simple like +/-...

	07-03-2003 23:20									#19
	Put an end to popups!

I think the best thing to do is probably allow for a higher resolution, go and bump it up to 1024x768, that would make EVERYTHING look better and work better

	08-03-2003 01:09									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I tried it with and without numlock (after I found out that -/= did work). I also tried the mouse wheel, and it doesn't zoom for me. Does it zoom for anyone else? Does the numeric +/- work for anyone else? Just trying to figure out if this is just me or what.

	08-03-2003 01:51									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

vmxa1:

I agree with you. Remember in Moo2 you could see what weapons and armor the enemy had? You at least knew if your fleet had a fighting chance.

Here in Moo3 we don't have that luxury and it is really frustrating to see your fleet instantly destroyed and not know what tech level the enemy is at. This doesn't really put your tech level in perspective with your competitors. All you know is that you need to research and upgrade ships quickly but by how much to catch up?

	08-03-2003 03:06									#22
	Suffering from ads?

Check your tech tree, there's a option below it to check the tech tree on other races and derive from what you see into thinking what those ships are armed with. It will be hit or miss because if the enemy empire has a large fleet, there will be some variations of ships.

	08-03-2003 03:14									#23
	Got spare money?

Yes I am able to zoom with those keys.