09-03-2003 13:49									#31
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You don't realize the symbolism behind the flag, do you?

Flags are very meaningful symbols of countries, in my opinion.

I don't like the idea of mixing hyper-patriotism with religious sermons, with a country's flag displayed in places of religious worship, because in my view, hyper-patriotism mixed with religious fundamentalism is dangerous.

	09-03-2003 13:53									#32
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You might as well prohibit national flags from being put up anywhere where political organizations get together. How does putting up a flag result in hyperpatriotism?

	09-03-2003 13:56									#33
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if you don't like it, go to a different church

They are a private church. They can hang whatever they want to hang.

	09-03-2003 14:27									#34
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 * obiwan18 shakes head. So the majority must always be right?

No, but neither must the majority kiss the minorities' collective buttocks.

	09-03-2003 15:25									#35
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus If they want to display the country's flag in their church, what's wrong with that? I could understand not putting up religious symbols in government buildings, but what's the problem when it's reversed?

Same thing. What's the difference?

	09-03-2003 15:29									#36
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One is a government giving support to a particular religion; the other is a religious organization giving support to a government. Unless you consider religious organizations and governemnts equivalent, they aren't the same thing.

	09-03-2003 15:31									#37
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No, both mean the government and the religion are tied together, similar to places where multiple flags are displayed. Support is not necessarily the case, together-ness is.

	09-03-2003 15:36									#38
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I don't see your point. I can, as I said, understand being against governments giving support for religious organizations, but why should one be against religious organizations supporting governments? Why only religious organizations?

	09-03-2003 15:39									#39
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I am disputing your point about "support."

	09-03-2003 15:41									#40
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Okay, so explain how a church having a flag inside is going to mean that the state is tied in with religion.

	09-03-2003 15:44									#41
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The general has a fair point.

A church/synagogue/mosque or whatever is meant to be a gateway to things beyond this mortal earth.
What has the nations and states of this planet got to do with it?

In any holy temple, you leave your worldy loyalties at the door.

	09-03-2003 20:04									#42
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some religions don't think that way

who are you to force them to think differently?

while I am not into the whole spamming, and I don't neccesarily agree with te emails (I didn't read them, just like I don't read most spam), I do beleive that the religious can support a nation all they want (as long as it is in speech)

I also think that the community should get to decide at such things as baseball games and the like

if therre was a community of wicans, I would totally support a wican ceremony before the game

the only time it gets wrong is if I have to take part, which no one is being forced to in tese situations

Jon Miller

	09-03-2003 20:08									#43
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Hmmm.

Who are they to force me or their followers to a certain viewpoint?

Worldly affairs and the concept of divinity are not in the same window.

But I suppose it is just another example of humans exploiting an idea for earthly gain.

Whatever.

	09-03-2003 20:20									#44
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as a member of a denomination which beleives that the US will turn to evil (one component of this will be the end of seperation of church and state) and a denomination which puts up american flags in places of worship

I can say that some acknoledge that religous groups must concern the,selves with worldly affairs

Jon Miller

	09-03-2003 20:24									#45
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No offense, but just because you believe in something, that does not make you the law, sir.

It all depends how much stock you place in the concept of so-called 'evil.'

I must say that the entire population of the USA is very unlikely to turn bad.

	10-03-2003 02:38									#46
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quote: I must say that the entire population of the USA is very unlikely to turn bad.

Ignorance and intolerance are very bad even with good intentions. Case in point... my Aunt, who is a realy nice lady, has begun saying crap like, "Ooo I hate those people!" when we drive by a Mosque. There's an awful lot of people that think just like her right now.

	10-03-2003 02:47									#47
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It was all ok except for the "I'm sick and tired of the US oligarchy persecuting us Christians and treating us like crap" part.

I agree that we don't need a taboo on religion in the government. However, I'm ashamed that many of my allies are dumbasses like this guy.

	10-03-2003 05:56									#48
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quote: The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard, that the vast majority don't care what they want it is time the majority rules! It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray.. you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance, you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right. But with God on our side, you are no longer going to take our rights away we are fighting back... and we WILL WIN! After all, the God you have the right to denounce is on our side!

i recall reading something about the tyranny of the majority... :hmm:

all of this "world is hell and america is going bad because it is godless" stuff... please.
the world was hell in the first place, and god is one thing some believe in to escape/cope/live with it.
america is going bad because we've gotten fat and complacent, with the rich getting richer off the backs of the poor, with those in power abusing it, and with the corporations warping our minds. it's not bad because it's godless. it's bad because so many of the people who would email these things, who would follow blindly without thought, did so.

the lack of the bible in schools had nothing to do with it.

	10-03-2003 06:50									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun What I think can lead to dangerous ideas, is when a country's flag is displayed in a church, or any other place of religious worship. It's a republic -- not a theocracy, people.

In my church, we've got an American flag with an eagle at the top (I don't know the term for the top of a flag), and a Vatican flag with a cross at the top, on either side of the church.

I think with Catholics though it's more a case of saying that we are loyal citizens, especially since historically there has been a belief among some Protestants that Catholics can't be loyal to the U.S.

	10-03-2003 06:53									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger No, both mean the government and the religion are tied together, similar to places where multiple flags are displayed. Support is not necessarily the case, together-ness is.

You're clearly ignorant of the Constitution. The first amendment restricts the actions of Congress in establishing religion. It limits the power of the government. It is not a seperation between Church and State. It is certainly not meant to limit the rights of churches to express themselves freely.

	10-03-2003 06:58									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed it's bad because so many of the people who would email these things, who would follow blindly without thought, did so.

Nicely put!

	10-03-2003 08:46									#52
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Q^3 - I disagree that America is "going bad" or anything. In fact I would say that we're getting really good. The people that are in and around my generation are much less prone to be bigots than our parents, we have a much better education system, we're not indoctrinated (as much) in schools, and we're going to be the first generation that will have grown up with computers and the internet (making us better suited to the Information Age).

	10-03-2003 08:49									#53
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But less able to write coherent sentences. http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=80031

	10-03-2003 09:36									#54
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Yeah, some little kid. Look I'm in Professional Writing here at Uni and we're discussing this kind of stuff. For essays on the subject go here - http://english.ttu.edu/kairos/ more specifically check out this - http://english.ttu.edu/kairos/7.3/b...kiwi/index.html
In particular you should realize that by this new generation understanding technology we will see new forms of writing which take advantage of the Web and Computers such as the Hypertext Essay.