08-03-2003 05:28									#1
	Conscience Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

OK guys. I gotta talk about this. And you are the only ones who will appreciate what I am talking about. I apologize for airing this, but I am feeling really sh*tty about we did to Lux.

I have talked to vondrack today and - please keep this within the team - they were not 2 turns away from being able to 'transfer' to Legoland as Trip has suggested. They were 2 away from reaching agreement. But ... only about 10 away from contact. Lego has a galley on the way - heading up the northern shore of the continent. It was the planned method for making contact. Lego had a city in the works for them.

The night of the fateful turn, I had started to write vondrack, just to see if they would be willing to gift Lux a city to get us and them out of the mess we were in. But then I figured contact was eons away, and that Trip would have kept us informed. I deleted the note and went ahead and played the turn. Looks like I should have written that note.

I know all the valid reasons why we did what we did, and that Trip certainly did little to help their cause, but I sort of regret that we couldn't find a bit more patience and get through a few more turns. And that's what really bugs me. If Trip had the deal in the works - why didn't he give us some indication. Vondrack thinks it was because it was all discussion up to that point - nothing concrete or approved. At any rate , what is done is done.

I have given vondrack our perspective on what happened. He asked for it to get a more 'balanced' picture than he was getting from Trip. He is going to draft the facts into a note for his team - who were very disappointed with our decision. He hopes it will help them see our point of view. When it is drafted, we will review before general release to his team.

I was feeling somewhat bummed out and guilty about our actions; vondrack's news didn't help.

I appreciate that this is only a game - but a fair bit of time and emotional energy has gone into the various teams - and I can sense what it must be like for the members of Lux. I guess Poly is a good lesson for real life after all.

Thanks for listening.

	08-03-2003 07:43									#2
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your welcome

we had to make a hasty decision on insuffucuent information

while it appears we made the wrong one

at the time it seemed right

Jon Miller

	08-03-2003 13:47									#3
	Put an end to popups!

I still think we did the right thing

but seriously it is sad to see a team go so soon. If I had known they were 10 to 20 turns away from leaving. I would have been OK with that. Anything more than 20 turns would have been too long for me though.

	08-03-2003 21:49									#4
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Ok, maybe we were a bit hasty in our action...But remeber, if Trip had kept us in the loop, and informed us were their discussions with Lego was actually at - our action would probably not have happend.

So I think the lesson here is make sure the civs you're dealing with are all kept abreast of events.

I see why you feel guilty Beta - and I actually do too...but diplomacy is a two-way street. Because Trip decided to keep us in the dark, our action at the time, I believe, was the right one.

	08-03-2003 23:12									#5
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I mentioned something about open communication in what went wrong with Lux thread in the intersite forum. I didn't go into details because that is no one's business .

but I felt if trip had let us know what's going on, and told us about the deals he was trying to make with RP, or was it glory?- then things wouldn't have got so messed up.

All game long, Trip has been very non-communicative. So as much of this is his fault as ours.

	08-03-2003 23:23									#6
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OT :

Where and how do I join the intersite game?

	09-03-2003 00:33									#7
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Eli - In the C3 demo game forum - join the civ group at the top. I am the moderator/authorizer for that group, so I can authorize you. Welcome aboard.

	11-03-2003 06:49									#8
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Hindsight is wonderful. Too bad you never have it ahead of time. Don't feel bad about what happened. They were essentially dead before we did the deal. We prolonged their fate a little. The Portia Accord was done in haste. If we had more time maybe we could have written a better agreement. Unfortunately the situation did not permit it.

	11-03-2003 07:18									#9
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Thanks Harry. I'm getting over it. I'm kind of surprised that it bothered me as much as it did. Appreciate your words.

	11-03-2003 22:44									#10
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It just wasn't in their fate to continue.

Of course we controlled their fate in a way...

but I still say their diplomacy is as much to blame.

	12-03-2003 01:37									#11
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quote: but I still say their diplomacy is as much to blame.

That is the kind of thing I was thinking of when I mentioned a better agreement than the Portia Accord. In the situation we were in the fates of both civs were intertwined. We needed some rules about diplomacy and we didn't have them in the Portia Accord. Lesson learned.