08-03-2003 14:22									#31
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin You can buy a hand mold, lead, and an electric smelter kit to make bullets for around $30 in a hunting catalog. They come with enough lead to make hundreds of bullets. That said I still would like to see a heavy tax on bullets.

Then put a big arse tax on these kits.

And on lead too

	08-03-2003 17:09									#32
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quote: It costs trauma centers and average of $17,000 per patient to treat gunshot wounds. Alot of this tax is picked up by taxpayers. There is now a proposal to put a tax on the sale of bullets.

The better, and much more free, solution is of course to force individuals to pay their health care debts themselves.

	08-03-2003 17:11									#33
	Remove this text

Well, there goes the plumbing...

	08-03-2003 19:42									#34
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Didn't the Romans have some problems with lead too , this does explain a few things

	08-03-2003 19:47									#35
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I was waiting for an intelligent Floyd posting on this.

	08-03-2003 19:58									#36
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Oregon baby! No sales tax on your bullets, and no bullet tax! Just wait until you are out of the state to start your rampage please.


You can get lead at print shops...the older ones.

	08-03-2003 21:02									#37
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quote: I was waiting for an intelligent Floyd posting on this.

You have some problem with people paying their debts?

	08-03-2003 23:07									#38
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it is an interestin idea

*reminds self to stock up on bullets before this happens*

because even if they get the gun illegally, they will probably buy bullets from the store.

Although some people would go into business making bullets. I knew some gun enthusiests who did this.

	09-03-2003 00:18									#39
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd You have some problem with people paying their debts?

I have a problem with a greedy health-care system run by insurance companies that takes advantage of the misfortunes of others. And I also have a problem with ignorant, sometimes heartless individuals that don't understand the consequences of their misguided ideals.

Buying consumer goods, gambling, buying property, overspending on frivilous items... that's debt. Needing a life-saving operation or medication should not be. It's a civilized society's job to provide health care to all individuals regardless of age, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or economic standing.

Again Floyd, I don't understand how you can consider yourself a Christian, yet lobby for such an immoral style of government.

	09-03-2003 01:29									#40
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd The better, and much more free, solution is of course to force individuals to pay their health care debts themselves.

If the person is an innocent bystander, then hell yes I have a problem with that solution. First the criminal should have to pay for it, and if that can't be worked out then I like this bullet tax.

It sounds like this tax would really go after the people it is meant to go after, but in terms of target shooters, if they are really in need of cost savings then the stuff MTG is talking about is fine. Though it still makes getting bullets off the shelf much more expensive. You have the tradeoff of convenience vs. lower price/do-it-yourself.

My judgement says most criminals aren't out at the range expending a large amount of bullets. They've got a couple of boxes laying around the house bought from the store down the street.

	09-03-2003 05:30									#41
	Full PM-box? Change here!

My union came up with a much better method for closing the budget gap.

I work for the courts in L.A., and the word came down from Sacramento that we have to cut at least $6.7 million of our spending by July and at least $12 million from the following year's budget. Management did knee-jerk thinking and recommended hiking fees, closing courtrooms and laying off staff.

But my union started brainstorming with our members and discovered that, because the fines collected by the courts to not go into court coffers but instead go into the State's general fund, court administrators don't make any great effort to collect fines. As a result, an estimated $100,000,000 in fines go uncollected every year in L.A. County and $500,000,000 statewide.

A week ago, our reps travelled to Sacramento to talk to the Judicial Counsel. They embraced our idea, and new legislation is being drafted to give the court at least partial credit for collecting the fines.

This just shows what the a minimal amount of thinking can accomplish.

	09-03-2003 06:18									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler My union came up with a much better method for closing the budget gap. I work for the courts in L.A., and the word came down from Sacramento that we have to cut at least $6.7 million of our spending by July and at least $12 million from the following year's budget. Management did knee-jerk thinking and recommended hiking fees, closing courtrooms and laying off staff. But my union started brainstorming with our members and discovered that, because the fines collected by the courts to not go into court coffers but instead go into the State's general fund, court administrators don't make any great effort to collect fines. As a result, an estimated $100,000,000 in fines go uncollected every year in L.A. County and $500,000,000 statewide. A week ago, our reps travelled to Sacramento to talk to the Judicial Counsel. They embraced our idea, and new legislation is being drafted to give the court at least partial credit for collecting the fines. This just shows what the a minimal amount of thinking can accomplish.

	09-03-2003 06:28									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler My union came up with a much better method for closing the budget gap. I work for the courts in L.A., and the word came down from Sacramento that we have to cut at least $6.7 million of our spending by July and at least $12 million from the following year's budget. Management did knee-jerk thinking and recommended hiking fees, closing courtrooms and laying off staff. But my union started brainstorming with our members and discovered that, because the fines collected by the courts to not go into court coffers but instead go into the State's general fund, court administrators don't make any great effort to collect fines. As a result, an estimated $100,000,000 in fines go uncollected every year in L.A. County and $500,000,000 statewide. A week ago, our reps travelled to Sacramento to talk to the Judicial Counsel. They embraced our idea, and new legislation is being drafted to give the court at least partial credit for collecting the fines. This just shows what the a minimal amount of thinking can accomplish.

10 minute standing ovation.

	09-03-2003 06:33									#44
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The deficit this year is around $24 billion. $500 million helps (assuming 100% collection on fines which won't happen) but it is just a drop in the bucket. Massive decreases in government pork is what is needed. The state spending has increased an astonishing 60%(!!!!) in the few years since the Democrates took over both the state house and the governor's mansion. They are completely out of control and the wasteful spending needs to stop.

	09-03-2003 06:34									#45
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Davis wants to run for President but he'd be even more incompetent then Bush! I wish Clinton were back in office.

	09-03-2003 06:44									#46
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Oerdin do you have a source for those figures?

You have to realize that two things caused the spending increases. The first thing is that Wilson had spending cut so low that programs were seriously suffering and in bad need of increased funds. And secondly the deregulation of the electric industry really was painfully expensive.

	09-03-2003 06:49									#47
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There was a debate two day ago on NPR and I heard the figures there. I imagine we could double check them on some government web site though I haven't bothered to do so.

	09-03-2003 06:54									#48
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I know there have been increased spending on education and necessary services. They were badly needed. We couldn't have gone on without increasing the spending for these programs.

	09-03-2003 09:31									#49
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I guess it's time for the gangs to go back to the good ol' breach-loading musket. Can't afford bullets so we gotta use musket balls.

	09-03-2003 09:38									#50
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Sava,

quote: I have a problem with a greedy health-care system run by insurance companies that takes advantage of the misfortunes of others.

You have a problem with people who charge for services that are necessary to stay alive? Gee, then I guess you must be really pissed at farmers, too, huh?

quote: And I also have a problem with ignorant, sometimes heartless individuals that don't understand the consequences of their misguided ideals.

That's nice.

quote: Buying consumer goods, gambling, buying property, overspending on frivilous items... that's debt. Needing a life-saving operation or medication should not be.

Sorry. Debt is what happens when someone performs a service for you and you can't pay right away, or if you borrow money/use credit. The type of service, or the good or service you buy, is irrelevant. Debt is debt.

quote: It's a civilized society's job to provide health care to all individuals regardless of age, race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or economic standing.

Bald Faced Assertion Man strikes again! And I like your use of the loaded phrase "civilized society".

quote: Again Floyd, I don't understand how you can consider yourself a Christian, yet lobby for such an immoral style of government.

*shrug* Just because I don't think we should enforce Christian principles on other people doesn't mean I'm not a Christian, it simply means I believe in freedom.

Ted,

quote: If the person is an innocent bystander, then hell yes I have a problem with that solution. First the criminal should have to pay for it, and if that can't be worked out then I like this bullet tax.

But, you see, this tax creates another innocent bystander - me! It isn't MY fault that some other innocent bystander got shot - tough **** for him, at least with regards to me. I'll feel sorry for him, but I won't feel an obligation to pay his debts.