08-03-2003 07:06									#1
	California proposes bullet tax Got spare money?

It costs trauma centers and average of $17,000 per patient to treat gunshot wounds. Alot of this tax is picked up by taxpayers.

There is now a proposal to put a tax on the sale of bullets.

I think it's an excellent idea.

	08-03-2003 07:07									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Certainly an interesting idea.

	08-03-2003 07:07									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Cool, I'll buy ammo in Arizona and Nevada and resell it here.

	08-03-2003 07:08									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

WHEN BULLETS ARE OUTLAWED ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE BULLETS

THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TAKE OUR BULLETS

	08-03-2003 07:08									#5
	Support Apolyton

Damn loopholer!!!

	08-03-2003 07:09									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

As Chris Rock says..if bullets were $5000 bucks a piece, no one would get shot.

There will be a huge stink about this though. Perhaps to lessen it, they could lessen the tax for business such as shooting ranges, in which people use the bullets only in the premises.

	08-03-2003 07:09									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

. . . which is exactly why states shouldnt have any rights. either everyone does it or no one does.

	08-03-2003 07:11									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: As Chris Rock says..if bullets were $5000 bucks a piece, no one would get shot.

Actually, Chris Rock said that if bullets cost $5000, people would still get shot but you would be damn sure that they deserved it. It's good to see his ideas being put into effect...

	08-03-2003 07:13									#9
	Got spare money?

It's a great way to promote sales of reloading equipment and supplies. Good ol' California government. Incompetence R Us.

	08-03-2003 07:14									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I don't see anything wrong with this idea... i'm all for having guns for defence and in defence all you need is a few bullets. sounds alright to me.

Lawrence:

Wyoming has different concerns than New Jerzey


thanks

	08-03-2003 07:21									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

For once Davis is doing something intelligent. This will decrease gun violence but it won't do much to decrease the state's massive budget deficit. Davis increase state spending at a rate of more then three and a half times the amount of increased tax recipts.

Think about it. The biggest boom in state history in turn meant the state of California enjoyed more more tax money then ever before in its history but Davis and the Democratically controlled state house created a deficit larger then most countries.

These bums need to be kicked out of office ASAP.

	08-03-2003 07:23									#12
	Remove this text

Davis is an idiot completely devoid of any kind of leadership. A tactical genius when it comes to running a campaign but a fool at the helm.

Any time something goes wrong the first damn thing out of his mouth is basically, "I didn't do it."

	08-03-2003 07:24									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's a great way to promote sales of reloading equipment and supplies. Good ol' California government. Incompetence R Us.

I'm not sure I follow you MTG. Can you explain in more detail?

	08-03-2003 07:25									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

albert

well then they shouldnt have joined the union

no problem

	08-03-2003 07:25									#15
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I'm not sure I follow you MTG. Can you explain in more detail?

Instead of buying new bullets, they will buy the stuff to reload used bullets at home.

ACK!

	08-03-2003 07:31									#16
	Remove this text

Sort of hard to get your "used" bullets out of someone: hell, let them try, more forensic evidence to catch them.

	08-03-2003 07:32									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I guess I'm ignorant of bullets. I didn't know you could reuse them?

	08-03-2003 07:38									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

If they are seriously deformed, how could you reuse them? Would you not have to melt them down and then back into shape?

Also, how easy would it bee to get your bulets back unless you were in something like a shooting range? Hunters will track dwon every bullet? After all, you buy ammunition in boxes, not as singles, no?

	08-03-2003 07:43									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

cartridges

	08-03-2003 07:44									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat It's a great way to promote sales of reloading equipment and supplies. Good ol' California government. Incompetence R Us.

LMAO

You weren't supposed to tell them that.

	08-03-2003 07:48									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

But this tax would be on every bullet and cartridge.

	08-03-2003 07:54									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by GePap Sort of hard to get your "used" bullets out of someone: hell, let them try, more forensic evidence to catch them.

You can buy a hand mold, lead, and an electric smelter kit to make bullets for around $30 in a hunting catalog. They come with enough lead to make hundreds of bullets.

That said I still would like to see a heavy tax on bullets.

	08-03-2003 07:56									#23
	Got spare money?

Mike: I thought you lived in Mexico?

	08-03-2003 07:56									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

If what Oerdin just described is what MTG is talking about, then I can see the bullet tax still having a positive effect. Buying some kind of smelting kit seems like alot of trouble.

	08-03-2003 08:12									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin For once Davis is doing something intelligent. This will decrease gun violence but it won't do much to decrease the state's massive budget deficit. Davis increase state spending at a rate of more then three and a half times the amount of increased tax recipts. Think about it. The biggest boom in state history in turn meant the state of California enjoyed more more tax money then ever before in its history but Davis and the Democratically controlled state house created a deficit larger then most countries. These bums need to be kicked out of office ASAP.

What were the spending increases?

	08-03-2003 08:19									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Admitably a large part of it was paying for electricity during the Enron created false energy crisis but he has increased spending on social programs by 50%. That's all well and good but at the end of the day the state still needs to pay for these and when your tax rate is already the highest in the region there just isn't enough head room to keep raising them.

Davis is one of those really old fashioned politicians who doesn't want to say no to anyone so he ends up giving money to every tom, ****, and harry who walks through his door. Bush jr. is equally profilgate when it comes to spending other people's money so it's not just a Democrat problem but California has every branch of the state controlled by Dems thus I end up *****ing about them more.

What we really need is a Clinton still fiscal conservative who is socially progressive.

	08-03-2003 08:22									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Mike: I thought you lived in Mexico?

Live yes, but I work up here in California.

	08-03-2003 08:28									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Admitably a large part of it was paying for electricity during the Enron created false energy crisis but he has increased spending on social programs by 50%. That's all well and good but at the end of the day the state still needs to pay for these and when your tax rate is already the highest in the region there just isn't enough head room to keep raising them. Davis is one of those really old fashioned politicians who doesn't want to say no to anyone so he ends up giving money to every tom, ****, and harry who walks through his door. Bush jr. is equally profilgate when it comes to spending other people's money so it's not just a Democrat problem but California has every branch of the state controlled by Dems thus I end up *****ing about them more. What we really need is a Clinton still fiscal conservative who is socially progressive.

Social programs cost more when the boom comes down. Do you know what new programs are costing?

	08-03-2003 08:30									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker If what Oerdin just described is what MTG is talking about, then I can see the bullet tax still having a positive effect. Buying some kind of smelting kit seems like alot of trouble.

Not at all. With a decent setup, you can do 500-1000 rounds a day without much problem, and save a lot of money over existing prices (do it yourself is about ~30% of the cost of store bought rounds, even before this tax.


FMJ rounds and hollow points are out, without a little more sophisticated equipment, but standard lead ball and wadcutters are easy.

With a little extra work, you can do hyper-velocity rounds in aluminum or magnesium (real bad for your barrels, but ballistically untraceable and 2-3x the velocity of standard weight lead or FMJ rounds, plus they're superheated enough to fracture on contact with a solid object, such as someone's head from 600 meters.) With a little machine shop capability (very little) you can make nice cookie cutter rounds that will do far more damage than hollow-points. Anybody who goes through a lot of ammo reloads, unless you've got money to burn.

	08-03-2003 08:34									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GePap If they are seriously deformed, how could you reuse them? Would you not have to melt them down and then back into shape? Also, how easy would it bee to get your bulets back unless you were in something like a shooting range? Hunters will track dwon every bullet? After all, you buy ammunition in boxes, not as singles, no?

You can buy bulk brass, or scrounge it on ranges (they get pissed if they see you, since they recycle the brass into reloads themselves. Most ranges have an "all brass belongs to the range" policy, but I've always said BS to that and policed my own brass.

If someone actually practices on occasion, 95% to 99+% of their rounds will be fired on some sort of range.

For free lead, there's all sorts of places - I used to get it from tire stores, which have all those used tire balancing weights, plus lead is cheap to buy anyway.