08-03-2003 08:38									#1
	Customized Races Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Has anyone tried to customize a race yet, or is everyone still learning how to play the game? Here is my first attempt at a customized Human race.

Economics: Investors to Monetarists -20
Toughness: Poor to Average +10
Diplomacy: Average to Good +10
Citizenship: Liberty to Association +20
Cunning: Dangerous to Sharp -40
Creativity: Normal to Adaptive +20

I'm only about 50 turns into a game with this race (because everytime I read a good tip elsewhere in this forum I have to go try it out!) but I think this is a little more balenced than the default Human race. Any more customization ideas out there?

	08-03-2003 12:48									#2
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One of the mods that enhances the Pedia has included a customize race for all of them. I think it is Lore Weavers strat.

	09-03-2003 01:39									#3
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vmxa1 - thanks! Lore Weaver's stragety guide contains a lot of what I was looking for, plus info on the Magnate Races. A link to that thread can be found in the MoO3 FAQ, and is also listed below.

http://www.ina-community.com/forums...threadid=261632

	09-03-2003 02:41									#4
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I tend to mod all my races now. granted, this makes them more generic. I will do less of this the more comfortable I become.

I:

increase creativity as high as possible (trading research ability, as I would rather be thourough than fast)

Increase spy as high as possible, hate getting killed early game

lower ground skills to poor, as I can either bombard or use overwhelming force.

last game I used psilon, used empathic, in conjunction with thier diplomacy skills, made it easy to be friends with all but ikthul and silicoids.

need to be more options like:

ship defense/attack

cybernetic/lithovore

aquatic/subterranean

I miss those, now we can only get those as hard coded properties (if that, more manual help please)

	09-03-2003 05:54									#5
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I did a similar custom race, bumped the good stuff and lower the ground stuff all around. Lower Dip as well, no senate for me.

	09-03-2003 06:09									#6
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I did a similar custom race, bumped the good stuff and lower the ground stuff all around. Lower Dip as well, no senate for me.

any idea what empathic adds to the diplomacy that the diplomacy skill doesn't? I have no clue, but in my game with both, I was rolling in the trade agreements, and only at war with the jerky civs, after a while even the humans wanted a defensive or full alliance . it seems to me that you could take a lower diplomacy with a empathic race and save 10 or 20 (howevermany) points.

	11-03-2003 03:34									#7
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My Humans:

Economics: Specie (-40)
Cunning: Quick (-40)
Diplomacy: Superior (+20)
Trade: Superior (+40)
Empathic (+10)
Fantastic Traders (+10)

They're still disadvantaged for having fewer picks than any other race, but at least they kick serious a-- at trade and diplomacy. It might be worth taking a hit of another 10 points and making Toughness average while making sure they always start in the Senate. The trade and diplomacy opportunities in the Senate are somewhat necessary for this customized race.

I will tell you they rock at trade, in particular, and that's what drives their game... the problem being that everything else is either average or sub-par... so they beyond hopeless if you can't make a bunch of trade agreements.

	11-03-2003 13:38									#8
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My modified Eoladi are so good they're almost broken. I don't remember the exact numbers, but push mining, industry, research, creativity, citizenship and government to the max, and everything else to the worst. Use a hive government, and settle all those size 10-12 gas giants. INDUSTRY MONSTERS !

-Jam

	11-03-2003 15:45									#9
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I tried to make similar industrial race from the Cynoids. Your race will generate a lot of polution - I think that Tollerance is important for an industrial race too. The Cynoid have fine discount on the natural engineers and the Tolerant special abilities (both cost only 10, instead of 30 and 20 respectively). Their Low gravity sucks to some extent though ....

	11-03-2003 15:55									#10
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The Cynoids are rubbish at this strat. They seem to only get size 2-6 worlds. By the time you've built a gov, a rec and a mil DEA, there's hardly any room left for factories. Nothing beats a size 12 sweetspot with 1 x Mil, 1x Rec, 1x Gov and 21 x Industry. Especially with Superior Maunfacturing and Natural Engineers.

-Jam

	11-03-2003 16:28									#11
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The Cynoid have 40% manufacturing racial bonus which the Eoladi do not have.

	11-03-2003 16:53									#12
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Hm, may be I am not right for the last one ....

	11-03-2003 17:16									#13
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And when thinking of racial bonus the Elder Civilizations have so much bonuses you can't imagine .... Their only negative is the 50% growth rate. And just an idea has occurred to me - you can try to capture some new orions at some point of the game - find a planet which is suitable for them, colonize it with the most inappropriate species you have for this planet and then give it to them. If some of them migrate to this planet, you can try to recapture it while it has not built any defence ... :-)

I wonder if this can be made to work? I'll definitely try it ...

	12-03-2003 02:04									#14
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bakalov

Meklar/Cynoid ManufEff += 4
(spreadsheets.mob\racemodifiers.txt)
It's ~14.2% factory output if you get superior manufacturing.

Tolerant is a must - all cynoid modifications what i see on all forums has it.
Pollutio*=0.5,PolluTol+=50

	12-03-2003 12:33									#15
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I agree :-) How to miss the tolerant and natural engineers when when it costs only 10 picks each?

I saw the efficiency formulas, I said that I am not right for the Etherean not getting the same bonus ... I still prefer the cynoid. May be their production is somewhat smaller than the etherean but they have much more picks and can do well in the other spheres of life, and the etherean can't ...

And I think that the efficiency +4 is greater bonus than 14.2% no matter what do you select because the *ALL* other manufacturing bonuses tend to increase the capacity, and the total industry is equal to the capacity*efficiency.

IMO the pollution reducition is esential too ... I have 10% pollution with Tolerant, Environmental tolerance -> superior and 3 pollution reduction buildings. 10% I calculate from the economics screen report. It says for example:

production ~ 5000 AU
maintainance - xxx (not important)
pollution ~ 500 AU

500 are 10% from 5000.

With 4 industry DEAs with Automated Factories and Astro University, 140% dea efficiency from pop, this is genereating for me ~960 industry and 3.1K PP.

I wonder how much pollution and PP is generationg the Word of Art on his 21 factory DEAs world with the same conditions?

And with a 6 sized world I can have 12 Industry DEAs, no Govt, Military or Recreation - they will be on the neighbour planet and my industrial planet will benefit from the outreach effect, not needing to use any space for them.

Another thing - good for the industrial planet is to have high biodiversity to absorb more pollution.

	12-03-2003 14:03									#16
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I think Ethereans get +4 ManuEff and +3 ResearchEff.

I know I forgot to add it to my race data table in my spreadsheet though

	12-03-2003 14:11									#17
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I'm telling you Etherians rock. and 21 Industry DEA's on a size 12 planet beats 12 Industry DEA's on a size 6 Planet, IMHO.

-Jam

	12-03-2003 15:21									#18
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Ok, but:

1) Ethereans cannot take the pollution reduction picks because they are a bit short on picks. I don't know how much difference this will make at the beginning.

2) In the middle game cynoid will finally get the techs to operate in HG.

3) Cynoid can get larger worlds that with a few levels of teraforming will get to sweet spot. In my current game I have a size 9 yellow 1 world which is already green 2. It was in the next system to my starting. It is very poor as you can suppose :-)

4) The count of size 12 worlds is not so big, and only the very rich are of "extereme" gravity, and only high gravity is not enough for the ethereans. In my game I have explored ~150 planets and only 4 are size 12, and only 2 of them are sweet spot for the ethereans.

5) The sweet spot worlds for the ethereans are usually very rich and you will have to fight the dilemma wheather to build mines or industry there.

6) Eoladi are one of the most naturally uncreative races.

There are more pros that can be thought of ;-)

And finally I am not saying that Eoladi are not a good race, or that Cynoid are better. I am just trying to compare them.

Why don''t you post some statistics about their production as I did - DEA count, buildings in the DEAs, DEA efficiency from population, presense of universities, the AU spent on production and pollution and final count of PP?

	12-03-2003 15:33									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

But you do realise that terraforming is not just a matter of having the right techs, but you have to pay for it, a lot, and then pay a continual maintainace to keep it at this level.

I've had no problem finding good planets with the Eoladi, nearly every system seems to have at least one gas giant in it, and I've found a system with 5 ! Taking good mining and covering just one big very rich planet with mines provides practically all my mineral needs.

I'm not bashing Cynoids, but Eoladi have plenty of picks, you can take superior research, creativity, manufacturing, good mining, average bioharvesting, best citizenship and a hive government. That leaves enough for tolerant too, if you knock everything else down, and taking a creativity hit allows natural engineers. Sweet.
Sure the Cynoids can get all these picks too, but they don't get the big planets. They do get more planets though. I imagine they can pump out quite a good "swarm" of small ships.
I tried playing as Cynoids, and I seemed not to find so many good planets as with Eoladi, but maybe that was just luck.

Also, I'm always preferring to have a small number of better planets, I can get more involved with them this way.

-Jam

	12-03-2003 15:58									#20
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When I try to pick the same traits with eoladi that I usually am getting with cynoid, I am finding myself at 60 picks shortage - I assure you, you cannot get the same.

You cannot afford to drop creativity, because you will find yourself with a tech tree containing 58.5% of all techs. If you drop it to average you will fix yourself at 51%. And this IMO is bad if you do not have high cunning.

With cynoid I am getting tolerance which reduces the cost of terraforming, and more terraforming techs reduce it further .....

So, I am waiting for the statistcs :-) Or finally I will try myself :-) BTW why don't you try the cynoid, and I will try the eoladi :-)

	12-03-2003 16:41									#21
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OK, I'll give it a whirl. At the weekend though, I want to finish my current Psilon game first.

-Jam

	12-03-2003 19:38									#22
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Art of War and bakalov – would you mind posting your picks? I’ve played the Trilarians, and they are great fun. They sound like the Eoladi in that they have big planets. The only other race I’ve played with are Silicoids – just dabbling though. Maybe it's time to expand and try a different racial type...

	13-03-2003 02:36									#23
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I'm in my fifth game. I've played Tachidi, Eolodi, Raas, Silicoid and Psilons (trying to play alot of different ones). In this time I've learned one thing and one thing only. In my hands, the Psilons suck.

	13-03-2003 12:44									#24
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My Cynoid are:

Bioharvest: Poor
Mining: Good
Manufacturing: Superior
Research: Superior
Environmental:Superior

Trade: Average
Diplomacy: Poor
Economics: Barter

All 3 ground combat skills -> poor
Starting planet biodiversity&richness -> poor
Senate : unknown

Government: absolutist (I play with monarchy and
ocasionally with despotism)
Creativity: Original
Cunning: Dangerous (only scientific spies)

Special traits:
Natural Engineers
Tolerant

It is possible to play with superior mining instead of superior research. I still wonder which is better.
Hope I did not miss anything ...

BTW I played with Psilon in my first game and won. It was on easy though. Now I am playing only on impossible :-)

	13-03-2003 23:13									#25
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I'm currently on my 4th Game. This is my second with the Klacons. (My 1st game with them was my initial game, which I won by Senate.) I increased the bioharvesting to superior, I took their loyalty down two notchs. I gave them Tolerant. I also lowered one of the ground attack settings. I don't remmember, which one. This is my first game with a huge galaxy. I think it was 76 I quit at last night. I have 20-25 planets, and have picked up the Darloks. I've been playing around with industrial planets. I currently have a slight mineral shortfall, but I just need more mining techs and that'll change.

	17-03-2003 14:41									#26
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my favorite custom race atm is a custom Imsais...
I love the Gas Giants.. the appeal I guess is the fact that the size of the planet is not something I can terraform, ever.
Once I get techs to terraform those size 12 planets to paradise its amazing... pushing out super dreads out with all the bells and whistles every other turn is GREAT. The advantage is not so great early on, when I don't have the population for it - but once I do, I've been able to roll over anyone.
This tactic is so appealing, another strat I have with other races is to capture some of my own Ethereans for Gas Giant colonization later, or Darlocks work alright too.

	17-03-2003 15:33									#27
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quote: Originally posted by drsparnum I'm in my fifth game. I've played Tachidi, Eolodi, Raas, Silicoid and Psilons (trying to play alot of different ones). In this time I've learned one thing and one thing only. In my hands, the Psilons suck.

I play the Psilons alot in MOO3 and they are doing petty good. It all in how you play than race and your mind set.

	18-03-2003 02:36									#28
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I think the Psilons can do okay in the senate. I also think they can do very well in the late game if they had time to expand in a relatively empty universe because they will have time to get a decent tech edge. However, I don't like to count on being in the senate and I like to play in crowded universe's which puts an emphasis on early game. I think the bugs excel here. Plus, if you have a good early game you can have a good late game with any race.

	18-03-2003 08:46									#29
	Re: I for one welcome our insect overlords Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by drsparnum I think the Psilons can do okay in the senate. I also think they can do very well in the late game if they had time to expand in a relatively empty universe because they will have time to get a decent tech edge. However, I don't like to count on being in the senate and I like to play in crowded universe's which puts an emphasis on early game. I think the bugs excel here. Plus, if you have a good early game you can have a good late game with any race.

When I play the Psilons I donot going into early conquestion
of other races, I have then defence what their have but I only do the conqust thing when I have than enought tech to do so.