09-03-2003 07:48									#1
	Vendetta Game? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Has anyone ever played a game in which the rule was that everyone had to be at vendetta all the time? i.e. once u meet in game.

It would definitely be interesting.

The only way you could get techs would be to steal them, or research them urself, or AAs, etc. i.e. no trading of anything.

Also, it would mean no cooperation. Only fighting.

It'd be interesting to see who'd end up on top, under such hostile conditions.

Of course, H2H games are similar, however, u can always pact or treaty with the AI.

	09-03-2003 09:19									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Heah smhfan86,
how many players are you talking about here, or are you you just positing an idea to pursue out the details from here?
A while ago I tried to rouse your interest in a game like this, but at the time you stated you were primarily a Builder, so I didn't pursue the matter with you.
Regardless, you are a skillfull player, and the game I was originally trying to recruit you to I turned into the January CGN Challenge. If you want, I can forward this SP Challenge to you. I also created an H2H version of this, as well, if this is what your driving at. Let me know if I'm in line here, and we can proceed accordingly, or if your driving at something else here, please explain in more detail, and hopefully I can provide some valid input.

D

	09-03-2003 10:17									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey Darsnan.

Yup, I was just positing the idea, to see if there was any interest. And if there was, maybe make up a game and more detailed rules.

I still love to build, but I also like to fight now too. I believe it's possible to still build a decent empire, even in a game where everyone was at vendetta, as the fear of being attacked, while attacking someone else, might keep players in line.

I was thinking something along the lines of 3 to 4 players, with no AI.

What's the January CGN Challenge? When u say SP, u mean single player right?

Currently I'm in the midst of writing 3 big essays, however, since turns for new games are really quick, I could start one, but I would like to plan it out first.

If you're interested, we could start planning it out on this thread.

p.s. Thanks for the compliment. Personally, I think this game is one of the best out there, still. If only there weren't so many bugs in PBEM, it'd be that much better. And to think, I bought this game many years after it's release, because I got hooked on the demo.

-SMH

	09-03-2003 11:51									#4
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The Manifold 6 and Manifold 7 games are pure Vendetta games (alien clone factions, all of whom are in Vendetta with everyone else) the players seem to be having a different challenge with these teo

	09-03-2003 18:12									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie The Manifold 6 and Manifold 7 games are pure Vendetta games (alien clone factions, all of whom are in Vendetta with everyone else) the players seem to be having a different challenge with these teo

Thats an interesting lot, to say the least! I subbed for Hobbes in Manifold 6 for a while, and gave it back to him much worse than what he had handed off to me!
To answer smh's question about CGN, its a gaming site like Apolyton, and a lot of the brighter lights in the SMAC(X) universe have emigrated to here. Here is the link, if your interested. The CGN Challenges are SP's set up by players with the idea of being really difficult, and whoever does the best for the monthly challenge is the "winner". I've attached my Challenge, if your interested in trying it out.
As far as me personally picking up any more games, why I'm afraid I'm booked at the moment. However, if you want to discuss this topic, or need a CMN, why I can help out in these regards.

D

	10-03-2003 02:17									#6
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Darsnan To answer smh's question about CGN, its a gaming site like Apolyton, and a lot of the brighter lights in the SMAC(X) universe have emigrated to here.

Brighter lights? I resent that!!! (LOL, actually, I post everywhere.)

Remember, Apolyton has much better smilies than CGN.

	10-03-2003 03:35									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by H0bbes Brighter lights? I resent that!!! (LOL, actually, I post everywhere.) Remember, Apolyton has much better smilies than CGN.

I was going to provide an example as to my above mentioned comment, but I see Hobbes has beaten me to it.....

	10-03-2003 08:52									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Manifold 6 and Manifold 7 sound interesting. As for Darsnan's SP challenge, I'll try that when I can find the time. Gotta work on my essays right now.

As for CGN, I use to go there, but decided to just stick to apoly.

	10-03-2003 18:07									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

Vendetta sounds like a game for players that would like to settle for old score....... a few around here certainly looks like they´re on the way to do this under uncontrolled circumstances,,,,,

	11-03-2003 03:29									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

actually, i think vendetta games would have less problems then regular games, because everyone's already an enemy, meaning claims that someone stabbed u in the back are moot.

	11-03-2003 03:53									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I am really enjoying manifold 7 . . . as an all alien game, not only are you always at vendetta, you can't even use the diplomatic channels in-game since it automatically gives back the " I want to kill you" message.

I liked it because a lot of MP games are decided simply by which of the stronger factions decide to ally.

It strikes me that you can do a number of variations depending on what you want to achieve

1. All vendetta-- no trades of anything
2. vendetta but tech trades are allowed
3. regular game but no-co-op victory so parties can help each other but must always be looking out for their self interest as well.

IN any of these there is always the possibility of 2 factions ganging up on one OR factions working in blocs of some type to deal with a threat.

	11-03-2003 13:12									#12
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Cool, about the i want to kill u message. lol.

i like the fact that it prevents tech trades, because that's the real killer when 2 or more players ally. a really good player could handle 2 moderate players in variation 1, but would likely be pulling their hair out in variations 2 and 3.

i like the idea of being completely dependent on yourself, and knowing that others are too. with no trades, the probe aspect of the game would be enhanced a lot.

p.s. could i get a link to the manifold game threads? i'd like to check it out.

	11-03-2003 16:22									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Here is the link for Manifold 6.

	11-03-2003 22:53									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

and Manifold7 is here http://www.civgaming.net/forums/sho...s=&threadid=504

we are on a 3 week hiatus right now as one of the 3 remaining players (of 5) is in the midst of a cross-country move

smhfan- the things you like are the very things I like as well-- rely on yourself and you don't lose automatically when two similarly skilled players ally against you

	12-03-2003 03:38									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

thanks for the links.

did the manifold 6 players simply rename the factions from networknode.org? or did they modify them too?

flubber - yup, i hate it when i get double and tripled teamed. i don't mind the military alliances much, i can handle that. it's the tech alliances that i detest. because it ends up becoming a war of choppers versuses, impact rovers.

i think a vendetta game where no one can trade techs because of the com message, is a perfect solution to this.

i'd be interested in starting a game like the manifold ones, with reliable players. of course reliable can easily change over time. lol.

i'm thinking.

standard or large planet.
4 factions max.

	12-03-2003 04:32									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I really don't know much about the cloned factions other than googlie sent me a file for them to unzip and then we just played. AFAIK, both games were set up identically with 3 usurper and 2 caretaker factions. Interestingly, I think we only have usurper factions remaining as both caretakers were eradicated.

I would really like another similar game. So far I have seen no real evidence of coordinasted alliances by anyone. Realistically, the only thing you could do tech wise to help someone else is allow yourself to be probed (and the player that is second in tech has the HSA ).

If people are interested, I would love to play.

	12-03-2003 07:20									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yup, i figured the same thing about the probe thing. only the person being probed risks getting probed by people they don't want to be probed by. lol.

interesting about the caretaker factions being eliminated first. maybe it was due to who was playing, and not the factions themselves.

	12-03-2003 22:52									#18
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by smhfan86 yup, i figured the same thing about the probe thing. only the person being probed risks getting probed by people they don't want to be probed by. lol.

and it is difficult to cotrol which techs they take-- they can try the specific steal but they could go for techs you don't want them to have or attempt to entirely probe rape the base or even just infiltrate you.. . . and sometimes probing fails -- so all in all it remains hard to cooperate

QUOTE] Originally posted by smhfan86

interesting about the caretaker factions being eliminated first. maybe it was due to who was playing, and not the factions themselves. [/QUOTE]

It could be geography as well. The two caretakers were up north while the 3 usurpers were in the centre ( me) and to the south. When I got a big tech lead (by probestealing from everyone) there were ways to use chop and drop against the northern factions immediately while those in the south would require more preparation to set it up. One of the southern factions WAS vulnerable but would have required the most effort to get in position( the other would have been very tough as he had the CBA)

It is a great game and a great map-- I would love to try it again (as the caretakers, one of the other usurpers or in the same position again).

	13-03-2003 04:13									#19
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true, it could have been #s too. 3 to 2, for the usurpers. plus usurpers are natually offensive, so they might have had an advantage in this type of game.

but it'd be interesting to see if a caretaker could build up well.

	15-03-2003 23:36									#20
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I would like to play such a game. Let me know if you have a free spot for me. I'll play SMAC or SMAX...any faction.

	16-03-2003 00:21									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Cool Smart.

Since it's an alien game it would be SMAX.

Flubber, what factions are in ur Manifold 7 game? Also could u list what the attributes of those factions are?

-SMH

	16-03-2003 20:45									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

There were 5 factions only, No AI.

The factions were named


Warriors - a Usurper clone
Overlords - a Usurper clone
Usurpers - regular usurpers
Caretakers - regular caretakers
Preservers - a caretakers clone

So everbody was playing with either the caretakers or the usurpers. The clone factions had the same attributes as a "regular" alien faction just they had their names changed to differentiate them.

As it turned out, we had 3 factions with usurper characteristics and 2 with caretaker characteristics but you could have 5 usurpers or 5 caretakers I guess.

Oh . . . Being outnumbered did not lead to the caretaker demise since the usurper faction and its clones were locked in vendetta with each other just as much as with the caretaker and clone. Nobody could trade anything with anybody and the dipo box only gave the " I will kill you" type message regardless of who you called. Nor was there any alliance or teaming up

It just happened that I had a decisive tech lead on 3 of my 4 opponents and it was closer to attack the two northern factions and both happened to be caretakers. I don't know that the usurpers are the better faction for this type of game since each faction had a sizable landmass to themselves--the first faction was eradicated in 2219 and the second in 2225 so this was not a case of an early rush .

Personally, I thought that the caretakers would be the overall stronger faction. If you want smhfan, I could send you my last game turn so you could see the factions and the map layout yourself

	16-03-2003 23:24									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

sure Flubber, send away, that'd be great. although, i'd like to use a whole new map for our game.

when i said it was #s, i meant probability, not alliances. i.e. the caretakers had a 2/5 chance, and the usurpers had a 3/5 chance.

i thought the alien factions were from networknode, so i thought they had those attributes. thanks for the clarification.

	17-03-2003 07:17									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

i was looking at the attributes of the usurper and caretakers and noticed that the techs they start off with don't match what it says in the manual.

e.g. usurpers r supposed to get p pysch, f mod, and biogen.

in the faction editor it says cent ecology, applied phys, and biogen.

do u have the same thing flubber?