10-03-2003 19:26									#1
	Volcanos, Tornados and Airships Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've noticed there's no climate or natural disasters.
Volcanos for example:
It can be like a barbarian hut (with the correct grafics) and an special stealth worker that produces lava (at cost of its life, to have control of the amount of lava flow). Is it possible?

Tornados:
I suposse its more simple; another "barbarian" hut (invisible) that produces tornado units. They must have an very high attack value and 0 defense (and gets destroyed after combat? like a nuke?). But while in the invisible hut it must not be visible too, because you will only have to atack them before they put in movement, to knock them out. mmm ... some ideas?

Hurricanes:
the same but with a naval unit?

Airships:
Please! an eye in the sky! we need this.
evolving of course; from tiny balloons to Hindemburg size vessels. In modern times it may become a sattelite.
Did some one can work on the grafics?

	10-03-2003 21:40									#2
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Try the Double Your Pleasure mod - it has balloons and airships. Pretty cool addition.

	10-03-2003 21:52									#3
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Try the Double Your Pleasure mod - it has balloons and airships. Pretty cool addition.

	12-03-2003 02:01									#4
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jontar, you have inspired me to play with natural disasters of another sort. I have given luxury resources a Disappearance factor (half 200, half 400).

I found that Bonus Resources (e.g., Cattle, Gold) cannot have Disappearance factors, so I changed them to Strategic Resources and gave them values also (Gold 200, others 400). Don't know yet if this will work.

	12-03-2003 05:58									#5
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Jaybe...

Let me know how that goes. I kinda like the sound of that. Could make for an interesting game.

BigD

	12-03-2003 07:05									#6
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... I've just think about something.
If i'm right, The AI know where all resource is in the beginning of the game...

So, does AI know when Resource will disappeare and where they reappear...

Another question: When One resource of iron is disappearing, is it another somewhere elses are reappearing??

Merci,

	12-03-2003 09:16									#7
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I don't think natural disasters need to be in the game as units . After all, what tornado, hurricane or volcanic eruption lasts a year? That is the shortest amount of time passage per turn- without modification.
However, in Civ2, you could place these into the game as events . You could have a volcanic eruption, tell the AI to change several squares around the volcano to a different terrain, even lava ( which I found on a mod, maybe the Mars scenario). You could even obliterate islands or create new ones. I had one scenario where an entire contient was torn in half. I had another one where desert occupied the interior of the pangaea, and every few hundred years, I programmed an event to expand the desert until it occupied every single square on the island! (My "whispering shifting sands" scenario- winnable only if you had terraformed some desert squares at some point!) A better Civ3 scenario editor is what is needed to bring more climate and geology into the game!

	12-03-2003 09:28									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Quasar1011 I don't think natural disasters need to be in the game as units . After all, what tornado, hurricane or volcanic eruption lasts a year? That is the shortest amount of time passage per turn- without modification.

True, but there are hurricane seasons, and we're all aware -- from the news if not personally -- how devastating these can be, certainly effecting an area's productivity etc. for a year.

-Oz

	12-03-2003 10:57									#9
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I lived on Guam - which is an island in a region where we often have typhoons - 4 years ago. I've seen what powerful typhoons can do. A strong enough typhoon could easily paralyze the economy for a while. Typhoons also are extremely destructive to infrastructure. In Typhoon Omar (1992), we were without electricity and water for a month and in Supertyphoon Paka (1997), it was a quarter of a year. It took the island a full year to recover and our economy in Paka was damaged severely because of the extensive damage on infrastructure. Even several of our newest power plants were destroyed in the storm.

	12-03-2003 13:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by MotownDennis Try the Double Your Pleasure mod - it has balloons and airships. Pretty cool addition.

IT DOES?

Dang it...I though I was on to something with with what I'm working on...

	13-03-2003 00:42									#11
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quote: Originally posted by BigDork Jaybe... Let me know how that goes. I kinda like the sound of that. Could make for an interesting game. BigD

Still playing a previous game at this point. It's going to be another week or two before I start a new one, and they last 2-4 weeks (standard maps are small for me, though I will probably test it on one).

	14-03-2003 11:57									#12
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Just one more thing in which SMAC was superior...

If i remember, there were natural disasters in Civ1, an earthquake would randomly strike and destroy one of your improvements.

	14-03-2003 19:34									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Just one more thing in which SMAC was superior... If i remember, there were natural disasters in Civ1, an earthquake would randomly strike and destroy one of your improvements.

Indeed -- volcanoes for cities next to mountains IIRC -- and the scripting language in Civ II was used, at least once in a fine scenario, to have Atlantis actually sink ...

*sigh*

-Oz

	15-03-2003 11:05									#14
	Re: giving bonus resources disappearance factors Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: I found that Bonus Resources (e.g., Cattle, Gold) cannot have Disappearance factors, so I changed them to Strategic Resources and gave them values also (Gold 200, others 400). Don't know yet if this will work.

Bigdork,
Downside of all these extra Strategic Resources is that they all show up in your Strat. Resource list box.

Just started a Std.-map game with disappearing resources this evening and none have moved on me yet. I am not using debug.

	17-03-2003 10:38									#15
	Update on changing Bonus Resources so they can move Increase Your PM Length

It basically doesn't work.

"This source of Furs has been expended" results in losing the Furs in the luxury box, but the Furs graphic & its tile bonus (food/gold) remain. Not the effect I had in mind.

Also, it is possible that there are some bug ramifications involved. The furs was worth 2 happies, but now my cities have variable happies (5-7), though my having been at war a few turns may account for something. My 7 pop cities have 5 happies, 9-10 pop cities have 6, and my 11-12 pop cities have 7 happies. Playing Rome, luxury setting at zero.

EDIT: Fuzzybrain syndrome. Furs are not (originally) a Bonus Resource. Can't wait to see what happens when one of THEM move on me!

YET ANOTHER EDIT: Oh Scrap! I had TWO furs; 1 expired on me and it I lost the furs in my luxury list in my cities. Later my second furs also expired on me and I had to trade to get some.

Not much fun to see bonus resources as potential trade goods. No one wants wheat or cows for trade.

Last edited by Jaybe on 17-03-2003 at 12:21

	25-03-2003 00:48									#16
	Yet another Update on changing Bonus Resources so they can move Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Please disregard my previous "It basically doesn't work." post. Hasty conclusions involving a scenario not set for Debug. I have since corrected that:

By changing bonus resources to strategic resources, you can set them up so they move. When they go, they reappear as strat. resources do, of course. Since they have no real strategic value, no AI wants to trade for them though they end up in your F2, trading and city windows as resources.

Luxury resources can already be given disappearance factors.
Unfortunately, they do not REappear! You could end up having no luxuries left on the planet. OTH, with the number of civs slowly decreasing due to warfare over the ages, this could maintain the competition for them. I think the Editor needs a "Reappearance Factor" just for luxuries.

	25-03-2003 01:54									#17
	Re: Yet another Update on changing Bonus Resources so they can move Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe I think the Editor needs a "Reappearance Factor" just for luxuries.

IMHO we need Worker jobs to plant and/or ranch Silk, Horses, etc. The New World should be able to start horseless, and a worker from a Civ with horseback riding and access to horses should be able to breed them in the brave new world.

Just my 2 centimes.

-Oz

	25-03-2003 03:54									#18
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Jaybe...

Thanks for all your work on this. Now the big question, will this enhance the game at all?

BigD

	25-03-2003 05:50									#19
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BigD,
I suppose it will enhance the game if you appreciate surprises!

If you have only one furs and it goes 'poof!' on you, I suppose it could represent some bad financial policy/event because you have to divert $$ to lux to compensate.

You had cattle or gold at a city and midway through the game it moves on you . Or, better yet you didn't and "surprise!", you DO!

The trick, I believe, is to have appropriate numbers keyed into the editor so things happen at the proper tempo. I had luxuries set to 200 & 400 (half each), but I made them 300/500 once I found they weren't coming back. Bonus resources I also have at 200 & 400; Appearance ratios in the 200-400 range.