10-03-2003 21:24									#1
	What to research next? Got spare money?

OK - here is the issue -

RP is doing polytheism (120 beakers)

ND is doing currency(160)

GoW is doing construction (I think - can this be confirmed)(200)

GS is doing republic (280)

That's it for this era. What do we do?

Polytheism is the quickest - 20 turns. But then we would be competing with RP for selling it.

We could do nothing - stockpile the cash - and then buy some of the techs after the trading frenzy occurs and and the price drops. Withe the save tonight I can let you know how much gold that will mean.

We will need to confirm this with GS, so they don't feel we are screwing them in the tech arrangement.

Last edited by Beta on 11-03-2003 at 00:02

	10-03-2003 23:23									#2
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Since everyone else is busy researching all the available research areas, placing our research to 0% and filling up on gold sounds like a good idea - but you are right, I think we need to confirm everybody else's research effort first.

	11-03-2003 00:03									#3
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I still say currency, unless you can work out a good deal with Neu Demo.

	11-03-2003 00:06									#4
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OK I read the bit in the ND FA thread.

If we are going to not research anything we need to do 2 things. Get GS's take on this. And set up a trade for currency right now. We don't want to wait 20 turns and have them charge us an unfair price for it.

	11-03-2003 00:27									#5
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We could wait until they have researched all three, and traded so that all three have them. Then we say who wants to sell us say currency, and how much do you want for it. If map making is any indication, the price gets real cheap.

I'm not sure GS would go for this strategy - and we do need to see how much gold will accumulate over the next 20 turns or so.

	11-03-2003 00:36									#6
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11 gold per turn I show on the save game.

so for 20 turns that would be 220 gold if my math is correct

+199 gold in our treasurey gives us 419 gold.

	11-03-2003 00:40									#7
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that could change with city expansion (possible upkeep costs), and building new cities.

	11-03-2003 05:19									#8
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I am changing my vote. I originally voted to not research anything - but think we should finish polytheism.

Why? It is the quickest tech we can do. 19 turns. And we can leverage it now, if we act soon.

Neu D is researching currency - and have said roughly the same time to completion. They also invited us into the tech trading circle with them and GoW - who we think is doing construction.

So - with our new-found goodwill with Neu D, we make a deal now for currency. And we do the same for Construction. It will cost some gold, as we are doing the cheaper tech - maybe 20 for curency and 40 for contsruction. But that gets us all three techs required. And GS will share the cost.

We then go to the next era, with republic. We get the extra free tech, and will be able to stay a few ahead of the rest for a bit.

They key is to lock these deals in now. RP won't be pleased, but I don't mind upsetting them. They are far away. I think friendly relations with Neu D is the key.

	11-03-2003 06:38									#9
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I would like to find out how far away RP is from completing Polythesium. They may have already completed part of it while we were researching Philosophy.

I suspect if we decided to stockpile the cash GS will want half of it.

I say we should go with the quickest tech provided we can beat, or come close, to completing it the same time the other team does. It would be a waste to get half way through a tech only to have another team complete it and trade it to everyone else.

	11-03-2003 07:20									#10
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RP was ahead of us by 5 turns. That is why I think it is key that we do these deals now. I don't think Neu D will back out of a deal for 5 turns - and they seem fairly tight with GoW, which could get us the 'in' for construction.

	11-03-2003 07:35									#11
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I concur Beta - We need to get these tech trade deals finalized now prior to the advances actually being completed.

Back to the subject at hand, I really like the grabbing all the gold we can option. But if we have to research something, then it should be one that we can still gain the max amount of gold during the research timeframe...so I still voted for nothing (stockpile cash)

	11-03-2003 08:16									#12
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I have pitched the three-way deal to NeuD, emphasizing the need to lock the deal in now. I have used philosophy as a bit of bait. The letter is in the Neu D FA thread.

	11-03-2003 22:44									#13
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this from ghenghis:

Yes we are researching Construction and ND is researching Currency, how about Republic or Monarchy?

	11-03-2003 22:46									#14
	Got spare money?

I'd rather research nothing than Poly, but that's just my opinion.

	11-03-2003 23:21									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Ok - how about this. We research nothing. Stockpile the cash. At the end of the trading frenzy which will occur, and RP, GoW, and NeuD have all three, we send them a request for secret bids. Each submits to us an amount in gold they would want for all three techs. Lowest bid gets the contract. I'm sure we could do it for less that 200 gold, which would still put us ahead.

Or we split it up now, and make cash offers to each civ for the tech they researched. By then, they will have each traded it twice, and the cash will be gravy for them and we can probably get them cheap.

On the other hand, we risk being cut oiut of the action. I'm not sure GS would go along with this risk.

I still say we need to pick sides now - as jon has suggested elsewhere - if we side with NeuD, we do Poly and try for the deal I have pitched to them.

If it is not NeuD, then we switch to currency, sidle up with RP, and make the deals now.

RP makes the most sense as an ally, now that I think about it - as they are the furthest away.

	12-03-2003 01:25									#16
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quote: Beta wrote: I still say we need to pick sides now - as jon has suggested elsewhere - if we side with NeuD, we do Poly and try for the deal I have pitched to them. If it is not NeuD, then we switch to currency, sidle up with RP, and make the deals now.

I guess I would like to go with Poly. Two reasons. You already are working on a deal with ND which should be quicker than starting a new deal. If we research Poly and the others have not completed their research yet we still have the option to research Monarchy after Poly. If we pick a different tech we will be back in this same situation later while we wait for the others to finish their research.

quote: RP makes the most sense as an ally, now that I think about it - as they are the furthest away.

I think RP is closer than ND. We need to find out. Now that we have Map Making, should we start trading territory maps? Maybe at least we can trade old mini-maps so we can find out where all the civs are located.

	12-03-2003 02:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by HarryH I think RP is closer than ND. We need to find out. Now that we have Map Making, should we start trading territory maps? Maybe at least we can trade old mini-maps so we can find out where all the civs are located.

Nope - they aren't. We found this out on Sunday's chat with RP. it is in the chat log there somewhere if you can find it. It is long.

The way it looks is that Lux was in the north - GoW is in the west, Neu D in the east, and RP in the south. RP is separated from ND and GoW by a jungle. GoW and NeuD are expanding into the old Lux territory - called Old Luxia.

That geographic set-up was my basis for thinking that RP may be the 'safest' ally to make.

	12-03-2003 03:18									#18
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Are we planing to enter Old Luxia ourselves? If we are then I feel that we need to befriend ND, rather than RP. I would hate to face an unfriendly welcome as soon as we land on Borconia. (I think that is what it is called)
If we do trade with them, could we make our payment per turn. This would further discourage then from attacking us.
I need to see the map, and get a little more into the game before making any decisions. So take my comments with a grain of salt.

	12-03-2003 04:02									#19
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probem woth the per turn is that it limits are tech speed if we suddenly decide to start learning something

but it is sometihn got consider

something for an analyst or advisor to run, perhaps?



Jon Miller

	12-03-2003 04:31									#20
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and I'm not keen on trading maps until we build up our military some more. No reason to give any potential enemies the proper direction to head with their galleys. They will have to do it the hard way.

	12-03-2003 05:45									#21
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quote: Beta wrote: That geographic set-up was my basis for thinking that RP may be the 'safest' ally to make.

On the other hand, if RP is separated by jungle they may not be of much help if we did get into a war with ND or GoW.

quote: Jon wrote: probem woth the per turn is that it limits are tech speed if we suddenly decide to start learning something

Per turn gold will not affect our tech research. The amount that can be directed to tech research is determined by how much commerce is generated by your cities. Per turn gold, in or out, is not used to determine the commerce directed to science. It only affects the bottom line of how much we gain or lose each turn. If you have a stash of gold you can run a sizeable deficit each turn without difficulty.

	12-03-2003 06:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident and I'm not keen on trading maps until we build up our military some more. No reason to give any potential enemies the proper direction to head with their galleys. They will have to do it the hard way.

Agreed!!

	12-03-2003 06:39									#23
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quote: Originally posted by mjmacy Are we planing to enter Old Luxia ourselves? If we are then I feel that we need to befriend ND, rather than RP. I would hate to face an unfriendly welcome as soon as we land on Borconia. (I think that is what it is called) If we do trade with them, could we make our payment per turn. This would further discourage then from attacking us. I need to see the map, and get a little more into the game before making any decisions. So take my comments with a grain of salt.

The problem macy is that we may not be friends for long when we cross the strait. Their last correspondence on that was fairly clear. They want us to stay off the continent. When you see the maps, you will see why it makes sense for us to be there.

1. We do not have much expansion room. We have a strong defensive set-up - but it is tight.

2. Cities across the strait will actually be fairly close to the capitol and thus reasonably productive.

3. We stay a world 'player', as opposed to being relegated as a back-water nation.

(the last comments is more emotional than practical, but makes sense to some degree.)

	12-03-2003 07:16									#24
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I agree full-heartedly with Beta's comments concerning expanding onto the "continent."....

EDIT: I moved my comment/concern to the "proper" ND FA Thread.

Last edited by Wittlich on 12-03-2003 at 07:22

	12-03-2003 08:25									#25
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actually ND would be the logical ally

but if they are upset with us expanding accross the straight- that probably won't happen.

It is much more feasible to make allies with GS and RP.

	12-03-2003 08:46									#26
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I agree that we should expand now. I think we will be able to hold the city we make, But I would like to see us building several cities. And If we make enemies with the ND this could be very difficult. It is not that hard to protect one city. However, it can get very difficult protecting two or three cities without a much bigger army than we have right now. Plus we would have to ferry troops across. I see no real threat from RP.

	12-03-2003 08:55									#27
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If it is not possible to make friends with them. then i say we tell them nothing continue with our plans and get more settlers across in a hurry. If they stumble upon one city they will try to put our expantion to a stop, and we may not get to build anymore. Hopefully we can get a few cities set up before they even know it. And when they find out we will be in a much better position. Still more dif. to defend but they would have less right to demand we leave. We could say we had a city hear for a long time. Possible claim before we were warned. Then they would have no legitamacy to ask us to leave.

	12-03-2003 08:57									#28
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This is a very ambitions plan. With a lot of risk. That go wrong if we are discovered too soon. But if it works it could have great possibilities.