10-03-2003 22:00									#1
	Graphics over Gameplay...or? Suffering from ads?

So, what do you think? Do you find graphics the most important thing in games, or is gameplay what drags you to a new game?

For me it's:
"Gameplay is important, but graphics shouldn't be too bad either"

I know I have trouble returning to good old classics, because of the outdated graphics, even though I love the gameplay... but I still play some classic games, from time to time

Last edited by Adagio on 10-03-2003 at 22:07

	10-03-2003 22:11									#2
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Gameplay über alles!

	10-03-2003 22:15									#3
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Gameplay is important, but graphics shouldn't be too bad either.

Nowadays, after having played games such as Morrowind that have outstanding graphics, I give them some value. However, a game with good graphics might still have low enjoyment value. And yes, I still enjoy playing good old Civ 1 .

	10-03-2003 22:23									#4
	Remove this text

I should say though, that there is a difference between bad graphics and bad graphics.

I don't mind a game that has outdated graphics, but I do mind a game that has ugly or badly made graphics. This goes for alot of the really old, or really badly made 3D games.

	10-03-2003 22:43									#5
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If the graphics are so good that they make the game run badly even on high-end systems (i.e. Morrowind) or are so bad that they make it impossible to work out what is going on then that's a bad thing.
Otherwise I don't really care, although clearly nice graphics are preferable to boring graphics.

	11-03-2003 02:00									#6
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FP, Morrowind runs at my system just about perfectly with looking awesomely .

Yep, Osweld has a good point here. This is one of reasons why I hate civ 2. Its isometric view and units graphics made it very hard to understand what is going on, caused confusion in my empire, and I could never get 100% used to those.

	11-03-2003 02:17									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The gameplay is fundamental, the graphics need only good enough to avoid criticism.

	11-03-2003 02:20									#8
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Solver Its isometric view and units graphics made it very hard to understand what is going on, caused confusion in my empire, and I could never get 100% used to those.

The unit graphics were nowhere near award winning but they were passable. And what's wrong with the isometric view? I prefer that to the birdseye view of Civ1.

	11-03-2003 02:36									#9
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"Gameplay is important, but graphics shouldn't be too bad either"

But it's nice when you get the best of both worlds.

	11-03-2003 03:10									#10
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gameplay always trumps graphics. they are called games for a reason you know. you only need good graphics when gameplay functionality is tied into the graphics. better functional graphics can make gameplay better.

the first choice is kinda an oxymoron, how could you have the best gameplay in a text based game? text based games are so utterly limited due to not being able to have functional graphics which enhance gameplay.

	11-03-2003 03:17									#11
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Gameplay is much more important, provided the graphics are functional. Old games with obviously old graphics are still fun to play, and on occasion I still do play them.

Yesterday I had the glory of playing in a VGA 3d wireframe environment. Yay!

	11-03-2003 05:05									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Yesterday I had the glory of playing in a VGA 3d wireframe environment. Yay!

Elite?

	11-03-2003 05:30									#13
	Suffering from ads?

I'm with you ADG. "Gameplay is important, but graphics shouldn't be too bad either". IMO that's the big problem with console games after the 64-bit systems came out. Gameplay took a backseat to flashy graphics. Most console games now suck, and the few that are good would are much better on PC (or would be if they had PC ports). Because the PC allows customization, modding, and sometimes, direct contact with developers. I prefer PC games because IMO, consoles are for kids and dumbass college kids that can't work a computer.

In the development of a good game, the gameplay needs to be ironed out first, then you can spend your time making it look pretty. Graphics are limited by hardware capabilities, while good gameplay requires a creative group of people. The other plus about PC's and modding is that you can often get improved graphics in the form of mods as well. For example, I download skins and models for Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat that are much better than the default skins. The drawback of PC's is that the games can be hacked and a bunch of dumbass puds can cheat in multiplayer games.

	11-03-2003 05:31									#14
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Nice guess, but no.
The game I posted in the Guess the game thread.

	11-03-2003 07:25									#15
	Tired of ads?

TA: Kingdoms graphics > WBC II graphics
WBC II gameplay >>> TA: Kindoms gameplay

Seven Kindoms II graphics > Kohan graphics
Kohan gameplay >>> Seven Kingdoms II

(IMHO, Seven Kindoms II was extremely overrated.)

	11-03-2003 14:32									#16
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quote: Originally posted by pg the first choice is kinda an oxymoron, how could you have the best gameplay in a text based game? text based games are so utterly limited due to not being able to have functional graphics which enhance gameplay.

Well, it was only ment as an... ehmm... metafor? Or whatever that is called...

quote: Originally posted by Sava I'm with you ADG. "Gameplay is important, but graphics shouldn't be too bad either". IMO that's the big problem with console games after the 64-bit systems came out. Gameplay took a backseat to flashy graphics. Most console games now suck, and the few that are good would are much better on PC (or would be if they had PC ports). Because the PC allows customization, modding, and sometimes, direct contact with developers. I prefer PC games because IMO, consoles are for kids and dumbass college kids that can't work a computer.

I couldn't agree with you more

	11-03-2003 14:32									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

For me gameplay is most important but if you can have better graphics with same gameplay I'm all for it. People who criticise games for having graphics they cannot play due to their system elicit little sympathy.

	11-03-2003 14:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo TA: Kingdoms graphics > WBC II graphics WBC II gameplay >>> TA: Kindoms gameplay

I thought I was the only one playing WBC2. Shows how wrong I was.

Looking at the votes, its clear to see we all hate flash graphics.

-Jam

	11-03-2003 15:03									#19
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I like flash graphics.

Graphics for the sake of graphics don't do much for me (Civ 3 leader heads come to mind), but graphics that detract from gameplay are evil.

	11-03-2003 15:04									#20
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mmmm .... Doom3

	11-03-2003 19:18									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Graphics should be just *functional*

Good graphics are *tolerated* as long as they don't get in the way of gameplay.

I know, I am victim of the prejudice that a blonde must be also dumb.

OTOH tho, no graphics, i.e. textbased, might even be better than crappy graphics.

I admit tho, I play Zangband with 16-pix tiles instead of with character-based graphics.

But give me a gem like Stars! all my life, in terms of purely functional graphics and outstanding UI.

PS (I wanted to write "game" and instead I typed "gem". Freudian slip!!! )

	11-03-2003 21:08									#22
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In Civ 2, units graphics made it hard to tell which unit is which. Isometric view made it just plain hard to see what squares are adjacent to what other squares, etc.

	11-03-2003 21:12									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Solver In Civ 2, units graphics made it hard to tell which unit is which. Isometric view made it just plain hard to see what squares are adjacent to what other squares, etc.

Do you have the same problem with Civ3/PTW?

	11-03-2003 21:21									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Solver In Civ 2, units graphics made it hard to tell which unit is which. Isometric view made it just plain hard to see what squares are adjacent to what other squares, etc.

I think after a while of playing games with the same setup you get used to it.

	11-03-2003 21:37									#25
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Kohan gameplay >>> Seven Kingdoms II

Which version of which game?

	11-03-2003 21:40									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MariOne I know, I am victim of the prejudice that a blonde must be also dumb.

Your avatar looks like one of the heroes from AoW

	11-03-2003 21:43									#27
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quote: Originally posted by pg the first choice is kinda an oxymoron, how could you have the best gameplay in a text based game? text based games are so utterly limited due to not being able to have functional graphics which enhance gameplay.

I disagree. No computer game can hold a candle to paper-and-pencil RPG campaigns, as long as they are ran competently. Words can construct a world like no graphics can.

Incidentally, I voted for option 1.

	11-03-2003 23:03									#28
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I play Nethack.

'Nuff said.

	11-03-2003 23:40									#29
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If I want pretty pictures, I'll go to an art gallery. If I want amazing CGI effects, I'll go see a movie.

Computer games are meant to be fun first and foremost, and I don't see any fun in a game that has great graphics but crappy gameplay. I will always point to Ultima IX for the quintessential example. Stunningly beautiful graphics, perhaps the best to date of any game of that type, but the most horrificly bad game imaginable.

All of my favorites are the games with more or less functional graphics and great gameplay. Of course, if the two can be melded and be equally great, that is better than having either dominate.

	11-03-2003 23:42									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I disagree. No computer game can hold a candle to paper-and-pencil RPG campaigns, as long as they are ran competently. Words can construct a world like no graphics can. Incidentally, I voted for option 1.

I think he was confining his sentiments to computer games. A text-based computer game isn't ever going to be as engrossing or complex as a real life RPG, since one can only program so much.

Text games can be engrossing just like a novel can, but I think I need at least functional graphics to get really lost in a computer game.