11-03-2003 00:06									#1
	Space Empires IV Gold vs. GalCiv Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Okay, I will be getting SEIV Gold tomorrow, having ordered it after playing the ultra-addictive demo. I've been so starved for a 4x strategy game that I just couldn't wait for GalCiv.

So my question is for the folks who have SEIV and are waiting for GalCiv--which do you think you will end up preferring? I don't want to ask which one is better, as I think there will be enough of a difference (GC seems more strategic while SEIV seems more tactical).

What I like from what I have seen of SEIV is the customization and mod ability, while GalCiv is appealing for the AI and the event engine. I am, however, worried that GalCiv is going to end like Civ in terms of having an endgame that is overwhelming (especially if you're in a massive galaxy and have to move all those units...is their fleet grouping?)

So any thoughts?

	11-03-2003 00:22									#2
	Support Apolyton

Yes, there is fleet grouping. In addition, I've had teams just give up and turn their planets over because they knew it was hopeless.

	11-03-2003 01:03									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by WarpStorm Yes, there is fleet grouping. In addition, I've had teams just give up and turn their planets over because they knew it was hopeless.

Now that's kinda cool... kinda like an annexation. Better than the Civ fight-to-the-death-no-matter-what model.

	11-03-2003 02:43									#4
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I only play single player games, and don't have time to make and learn extensive new mods.
So i think i'll like GC much better.

	11-03-2003 07:26									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Boris Godunov, you just smooth wasted your money. After playing SE3, I got SE4. SE3 is a pretty good shareware game. SE4 is, well, lets just say that if you last about the first 50 turns, you're going to win. The AI ain't the brightest (and no, all the AI scripts written by modders don't do that much).

Basically, the AI does not know how to develop planets based on the three types of resources (nothing like finding a mining world with no minerals). Should have just been resources (like in SE3). Also, the AI won't utilize captured members of other species to maximize colonization of different atmosphere types (you'll see what I'm talking about...)

Enjoy (ha, ha, ha)

	11-03-2003 15:12									#6
	Support Apolyton

SE4 is neat ... for a time, but lacks "atmosphere" to last.
It has very varied gameplay, there are tons or races to play and good mods, the PBW system is very cool.
Graphics/sounds are very so-so but UI is efficient.
Tons of tech and designs, correct tac combat game - but often lopsided vs the AI...
But it is also very micromanagement and conquest oriented, not much to do politically and culturally - colonize like hell, crank up prod, build tons of ships, crush enemy, rinse; repeat...

	11-03-2003 16:09									#7
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Sounds like MoO3

-Jam

	11-03-2003 22:01									#8
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art Sounds like MoO3 -Jam

Nah, the AI in SE4 attacked, it just couldn't keep its production/research up against a human who knew what he/she was doing.

	11-03-2003 22:21									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by PDifolco SE4 is neat ... for a time, but lacks "atmosphere" to last. It has very varied gameplay, there are tons or races to play and good mods, the PBW system is very cool. Graphics/sounds are very so-so but UI is efficient. Tons of tech and designs, correct tac combat game - but often lopsided vs the AI... But it is also very micromanagement and conquest oriented, not much to do politically and culturally - colonize like hell, crank up prod, build tons of ships, crush enemy, rinse; repeat...

What I really like about SE4 is the ability to add custom graphics very easily. I am looking forward to downloading the Star Wars and Star Trek graphics mods.

That, and the gameplay is just very addicting. I love the "one more turn" syndrome, something that, in the later stages of Civ3, got lost. The tactical battles are also fun, at least compared to most TBS combat systems.

Atmosphere, however, is a big issue. So far, my two favorite 4X games, oddly enough, are Ascendancy and Imperium Galactica II, both of which had major design flaws, but both of which had an engrossing atmosphere that inspired a true sense of an epic galaxy.

And Templay, as for wasting money...well, I can send it back before opening. And even if I don't, I have enough to spare, and I'm doing my bit to help the struggling economy.

	12-03-2003 22:46									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hey Boris, you get SE4 yet? I'm curious to know what you think.

	12-03-2003 23:29									#11
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It hasn't arrived yet. Stoopid UPS 2nd day shipping!

Actually, I had it sent to my office, so the building management will likely get it late in the day and then I won't get it until tomorrow.

I am actually considering more and more just sending it back unopened, since GalCiv is looking like what I want. I will have to make myself patient.

	13-03-2003 04:54									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Boris:

If you have the money to spare, don't cancel.

I downloaded the SE4 Gold demo a couple of days ago after hearing you say that it was fun. I have never played it.

I like it alot, it seems to be very well done.

However, I am going to wait for galciv because of my self-imposed game spending limits.

argh

	13-03-2003 07:08									#13
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Hmmm, I just reinstalled it. I'm tired of MoO3 already.

	19-03-2003 22:09									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Following up...after about a week playing, I have to say I find SEIV to be pretty cool, though not ideal. I haven't gotten bored with it yet, that's for certain. The custom mods are AWESOME, since I now have my massive Imperial fleet, without having to suffer through the awful mechanics of Rebellion.

The tech tree is pretty well-done, though I wish there was a bit more explanation of how things work. I'm still not clear on how exactly is the best way to use fighters, drones, and mines, and what exactly some of the ship components do.

I haven't had a problem with the AI being too bad. On the contrary, they seem to outstrip me in tech and have huge fleets, so I need to catch up.

	19-03-2003 23:20									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I haven't had a problem with the AI being too bad. On the contrary, they seem to outstrip me in tech and have huge fleets, so I need to catch up.

Hmmm, might be either the gold edition is much improved, or you haven't mastered optimization. I started playing again and immediately whipped the AI.

Have you done the following: focused on capturing races that breathe different atmospheres and then filled planets with the species that breathes that planet's atmosphere. You can resettle populations around Tito-like. In my current game, I'm the terrans, so my people breathe oxygen. I captured the Cluk-ruk (methane breathers), Nultoh (hydrogen breathers), and stole an Eee colony ship via espionage (CO2 breathers) and optimized all my planets with only races that breathe that planent's atmosphere. No domed colonies - so everything is at capacity. Last I looked, the AI won't do this. I suppose I could play as a genocidal madman and wipe out all other races - but my way seems nicer.

If you have done the atmosphere optimization trick and the AI is still competetive, then the Gold edition must be improved in the AI department.

	20-03-2003 01:32									#16
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Honestly, I haven't played long enough to encounter a situation where I could do that. In my current game, I have conquered one enemy race, and they were oxygen breathers like myself. I have just gone to war with a badass race, though, and am thinking I am about to get clobbered. No one told me that building a new colony in a system where another empire has a colony would lead to such a pissy attitude!

	20-03-2003 07:51									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

SEIV Gold was certainly a fun game, and I still play it now. The AI, while hardly a scholar, isn't dirt stupid either. You should have some challenges when first getting into it. And even when you feel it is getting a bit easy, there is an impressive mod community around it to get some fresh games out for a while.

I wouldn't get it this close to GalCiv coming out though, just because I really think this will the game that finally replaces it in the 4X genre. (Moo3 sure as hell wasn't.)

	20-03-2003 23:40									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm not regretting getting SEIV at all. On the contrary, I am enjoying the game a lot and view it as the perfect "filler" until GalCiv arrives.

It hasn't become my favorite 4X game, but it's up there.

	21-03-2003 00:48									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Honestly, I haven't played long enough to encounter a situation where I could do that. In my current game, I have conquered one enemy race, and they were oxygen breathers like myself. I have just gone to war with a badass race, though, and am thinking I am about to get clobbered. No one told me that building a new colony in a system where another empire has a colony would lead to such a pissy attitude!

Actually (and this is buried on the diplomacy screen under a button labeled 'borders'), colonizing in a claimed system or a conflicting claim will piss off another empire. Although you can negotiate borders w/ the AI.

	21-03-2003 01:07									#20
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They weren't interested in negotiating. I even tried giving them the colony as a mea culpa, but they said that wasn't enough and declared war. On the one hand, I have a good-sized battle fleet with which to raid their systems. On the other, they are more advanced than me technologically and, no doubt, have superior weapons and bigger ships available...

	21-03-2003 05:15									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov They weren't interested in negotiating. I even tried giving them the colony as a mea culpa, but they said that wasn't enough and declared war. On the one hand, I have a good-sized battle fleet with which to raid their systems. On the other, they are more advanced than me technologically and, no doubt, have superior weapons and bigger ships available...

Now you're going to find out the big advantage SE4 has over MoO3. The AI is going to attack, and the AI will likely whip your ass. The only thing is, the AI seems to like to bomb out planets instead of capturing them. (Guess I'm just a big softy building my little commonwealth ) Just be glad as your ass is being whupped that at least your ass is being whupped. I never seem to have that problem in MoO3 . . .