11-03-2003 05:05									#1
	The chaotic Apolytonic bureaucracy. Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have been away for some time due to a very busy life and a holiday. Actually, I haven't looked at this forum since the proposal of the amendment for which I started the discussion in the confirmation thread of the constitution.

Now that I have come back I'm astonished about the enormous amount of ministries. There seem to be so many ministries that I'm totally lost in this huge overwhelming world of bureaucracy. This bureaucracy is confusing and shall certainly discourage in the future.

I call upon the consuls that they try to find a way to bring some order in this chaos of bureaucracy perhaps a diractory as I suggested a long time ago before the game had started, or that they decrease it's size: one thread for every ministry is enough and please put all of the ministerial threads on top.

[rp]Think of all the money that this costs! The civil servants need to be paid, they won't work for free. If we reduce the bureaucracy, this will spare us a lot of money that we can use for other goals.[/rp]

Thanks,

Aidun

	11-03-2003 05:22									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I actually think things are pretty good the way they are. There's not a lot of Minister's, really, at least not to me anyways. The Consuls are doing a great job in keeping everyone informed and included in the game play. The Minister's are providing top notch advice to both the Consuls and to the Senator's (you and I) to help us make some decisions.

There may be a few threads here; but the important ones are always near the top. There's no lack of input or interaction going on around here!

	11-03-2003 05:23									#3
	Put an end to popups!

Only 3 ministries. War, Interior and Diplomacy. Each has a topped thread.

Bam.

	11-03-2003 07:17									#4
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Perhaps the Infocentre thread can be topped to the top of the tops.

And updated to show the ministry and other important threads.

	11-03-2003 10:08									#5
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I think it's alright as it is. There's a lot of discussion going on of course and one is inclined to get lost (trust me I've been absent since about turn 6)

I think the less "democracy" there is in a democracy game the better.

	11-03-2003 10:10									#6
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It's fine.

All of us, or at least those active, give each other grief as much as possible (seriously, contribute well), the Ministers take it to the Consuls, and decisions are made... unless, of course, there is rabid disagreement, in which case the cycle starts again.

It's fine.

	12-03-2003 00:55									#7
	Remove this text

Polls are not bureaucratic, nevertheless kinda democratic...
So why do we have so few?

	12-03-2003 01:18									#8
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Polls are not bureaucratic, nevertheless kinda democratic... So why do we have so few?

There's absolutely nothing that would prevent you from starting a poll on any kind of decision that the Consuls would have to make. In fact, I think the Consuls kinda like to see the polls because they usually back up what they were planning to do anyways, sort of a confirmation of their leadership and choices.

Before you start a poll though, make sure that it is a legitimate issue and that you present it in a non-biased form. You may vote on the poll yourself and present your opinion about it further down in the thread; just not in the first post in the thread.

	12-03-2003 01:23									#9
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Polls are not bureaucratic, nevertheless kinda democratic... So why do we have so few?

There has been very little to be decided so far (and the really important issues WERE polled about). Besides, nothing prevents Senators from posting polls - so it is likely that nobody feels any need for more polls...

I would like to use this opportunity to make one thing clear - the Consuls (at least me, to be precise... I should not speak for nye & Ninot, even though they may share my approach) are not going to blindly follow/obbey poll results, irrespective of who posted/started them - especially if the result is less than overwhelming support of one option. Quite often, things change mid-poll, important information surface etc. and following the numerical result of a poll may actually not be the same as following the ultimate will of the team (and repolling may be out of question due to time constraints). Therefore, polls shall serve to provide Consuls with valuable information, but their results shall always be considered with common sense... they can hardly be the ultimate tool for making decisions. Poly polls are simply not suitable for this kind of thing.

So, whenever anyone feels like polling, by all means, poll. There is nothing like "official" and "unofficial" polls. The better, the more precisely and thoroughly the poll poster formulates options, the more validity such a poll will have and the higher its influence on the decision of the Consulate.

	12-03-2003 02:21									#10
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Ok. Sounds fair enugh... I was thinking more like strategic polling.
Many options, long time line, different playstyles, stategic choices, etc. I can try to set up one soon. A discussion/poll combo.
Hmm, just to write 'senate bill', and then it's official?

	12-03-2003 02:34									#11
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I would like to complain about the fact that there was no poll for the decision to pop Barbs out of Huts 2 and 3; the Consuls simply went ahead and made life a lot more "interesting" for everyone without the Ministers' or the Citizens' consent. Next time we pop a Hut, I suggest we make a poll to decide what we're going to get out of it.


Dominae

	12-03-2003 02:50									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae I would like to complain about the fact that there was no poll for the decision to pop Barbs out of Huts 2 and 3; the Consuls simply went ahead and made life a lot more "interesting" for everyone without the Ministers' or the Citizens' consent. Next time we pop a Hut, I suggest we make a poll to decide what we're going to get out of it.

As I said... even if there WAS a poll on what we shall pop put of the huts, the Consuls would still eventually decide independently, just considering the desire of majority.

	12-03-2003 02:59									#13
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There you see. A possible team-conflict problem. I don't know much about the situation prior to that event, but if it continues to be lesser and lesser 'senate level' decision making here, a change-of-command votation could be the result. In such a case I would support a change-of-command proposal since then the teamwork part had been neglected by those who run the team. And if we can avoid that, everyone would benefit from it...

	12-03-2003 03:02									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hm, re-reading my post, I realise it could cause some confusion. I was trying to make a joke, pure and simple. The Consuls (as far as I know) cannot influence the outcome of the Huts. I was just trying to make light of the situation by blaming our bad Hut-luck on them. Let us all smile and try not to think of the poverty of our start.


Dominae

	12-03-2003 03:19									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Hm, re-reading my post, I realise it could cause some confusion. I was trying to make a joke, pure and simple. The Consuls (as far as I know) cannot influence the outcome of the Huts. I was just trying to make light of the situation by blaming our bad Hut-luck on them. Let us all smile and try not to think of the poverty of our start.

Yeah, I had to re-read it twice to get it... it is easy to misunderstand if you do not pay attention enough... but then, I had a good laugh...

	12-03-2003 04:20									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Hm, re-reading my post, I realise it could cause some confusion. I was trying to make a joke, pure and simple. The Consuls (as far as I know) cannot influence the outcome of the Huts. I was just trying to make light of the situation by blaming our bad Hut-luck on them. Let us all smile and try not to think of the poverty of our start. Dominae

Bah, you go too easy on them. It is their fault!

	12-03-2003 14:13									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Bah, you go too easy on them. It is their fault!

It isn't their fault.
I believe we are feeling the wrath of a displeased banana, we should allow it to win a poll, that will applease it. Then hopefully our luck will change

	13-03-2003 02:07									#18
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quote: Originally posted by jim_steer It isn't their fault. I believe we are feeling the wrath of a displeased banana, we should allow it to win a poll, that will applease it. Then hopefully our luck will change

By jove - I think you're right!