11-03-2003 21:36									#31
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Pretty much sums it up.

	11-03-2003 21:41									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The rest of your post was spot on, but I don't buy this one. I see anti-war activists, celebrity or non, on TV every single day...

Yeah, as part of a four person panel in which the other three are in some ways for the war, or for "our troops".

The press coverage is not very sympathetic to the anti-war movement. There are limits to how unsympathetic the press can be (except on FoxNews) to this segment of the population, but they certainly don't get anything approaching full coverage.

Just as a barometer: take the very popular 'guest' shows..in how many of them have you seen someone supportive of the war state their opinons openly vs. an opponent of the war?

	11-03-2003 21:48									#33
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quote: Yeah, as part of a four person panel in which the other three are in some ways for the war, or for "our troops".

Not really. Jessica Lange and some ex-Senator, both anti-war, were on News Night with Aaron Brown last night by themselves. One of the leaders of the Code Pink rally was on Hannity and Colmes by herself last night. Janeane Garofalo has been on several shows with Mike Farrell and was on Crossfire two night ago by herself. I just don't see it, GePap...

	11-03-2003 21:50									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Ozz is not really a Canadian. Otherwise, please excuse his blanket insults and apparent lack of education/employment. Ozz: HEY D00D, ITZ 11:20 - TIME 2 GO SMOKE A REEFR N' VOTE NDP

Actually I am, so my comments stand.

Are you old enough to vote? or just old enough to
blow reefers and get girls pregant and look for a
shoulder to cry on on the internet? Smokin' reefers at 11:20?, don't have a job do ya. Pathic really.

Seems I know more about you ya little winer than you
know about me. So don't judge lest ye be judged, and
your judgement is already questionable.

	11-03-2003 21:55									#35
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Pretty much sums it up.

Seperation of church and state cuts both ways. The state may not promote religion, i.e., no offical prayers, but neither may they prevent students from practicing their faith. On my high school sports teams, we prayed before playing football or running track. No one made us do it. No one told us not to do it. That's the way it's supposed to be, our choice.

	11-03-2003 21:55									#36
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There are always extremists on both sides. Intelligent people have to look past the bullsh1t of the extremists and examine the situation based on its on merit and not the words of some flaming hippie, or some ignorant war hawk.

	11-03-2003 22:00									#37
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I don't see Protestants being allowed to flock to their church of choice.

	11-03-2003 22:01									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Not really. Jessica Lange and some ex-Senator, both anti-war, were on News Night with Aaron Brown last night by themselves. One of the leaders of the Code Pink rally was on Hannity and Colmes by herself last night. Janeane Garofalo has been on several shows with Mike Farrell and was on Crossfire two night ago by herself. I just don't see it, GePap...

Hannity and Colmes? let me guess, the whole time colmes kept his mouth shut while Hannity berated the guest for being a defeatist, anti-American, pro-Saddam, so forth and so on? Hannity and Colmes is not a place for any sort of "debate". but beyond that, for all the people who watch Cable news, the primary source of info for most remain the networks and their shows. and the networks, even ABC, the most liberal, keep the coverage light, as to not offend.

I do not expect a supporter of the war to think that the other side is not fully supported. I don't mind the more extreme elements of the anti-war side not getting on tv: I don't want them on Tv, they ruin the cause. But I do see that for the most part, support for the war and the government gets a significantly bigger piece of the media pie than the other, a difference beyond that which could be explained by claiming that there are simply more pro-war voices than anti war.

	11-03-2003 22:02									#39
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There is considerably more coverage given to anti-war voices this time around. We aren't given equal time, bu hell, this is the best coverage we've gotten ever. Even during the Vietnam antiwar movement, there wasn't much opportunity to voice antiwar opinions, although the protests were covered.

Celebrities, however, are speaking for themselves and are not spokespeople for any of the four major anti-war groups (two led by commies, two led by church groups, all working closely together). Mike Farell's one of the few who actually seem to have a brain and I was suprised when I heard him speak on Face the Nation a couple weeks back.

It must still be said, however, that the majority of the message going out is the Adminstration's.

	11-03-2003 22:04									#40
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Yeah, FoxNews is a joke. CNN is the closest thing to "balanced" on cable news. Unfortunately, the CNN view of balanced is a bunch of psychos from both sides and not rational moderates.

	11-03-2003 22:08									#41
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I don't see Protestants being allowed to flock to their church of choice.

Speaking as a former Protestant (I know, Episcopalian is only barely Protestant), I don't remember being required to pray five times each day. I do remember getting fish as an option every Friday during Lent and getting let out of school to attend Ash Wednesday services and Good Friday was only a half day.

	11-03-2003 22:08									#42
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quote: Hannity and Colmes? let me guess, the whole time colmes kept his mouth shut while Hannity berated the guest for being a defeatist, anti-American, pro-Saddam, so forth and so on? Hannity and Colmes is not a place for any sort of "debate".

Hannity did his thing just as you described, but then Colmes cut him off and praised her, saying that "protesting is the most patriotic thing you can do" or something like that. Pretty typical Hannity & Colmes debate and not nearly as interesting as the Larry Eagleburger segment earlier in the show. Eagleburger is da man...

quote: I do not expect a supporter of the war to think that the other side is not fully supported.

Don't be so quick to label me. I've been getting spooked recently...

quote: I don't mind the more extreme elements of the anti-war side not getting on tv: I don't want them on Tv, they ruin the cause.

I actually think that the extreme elements get on TV more than the sensible opponents of the war. There's your bias if you really want to find it...

	11-03-2003 22:13									#43
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What does the number of times matter?
If you can't pray, you can't pray.
If there's separation, there's separation.

Let's make an asinine rule, then bend it until it breaks.
Very sensible in total. Not.

	11-03-2003 22:21									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: I don't mind the more extreme elements of the anti-war side not getting on tv: I don't want them on Tv, they ruin the cause. I actually think that the extreme elements get on TV more than the sensible opponents of the war. There's your bias if you really want to find it...

I said I didn't want them on TV, not that they don't get on. TV is TV, which imposses some limits. Its easy to have a 10 second reason to support the war that people cna easily get: "Saddam is a bloodthirsty killer, has defied the world for 12 years, sleep with Osama. We must kill him." The extremist anti-war slogans "This is a war for oil..think of the millions who will die.." make for equally effectively entertaining TV. For some guy to come on and day "say no to war because, while saddam is a bugger, his removal in this way will unhinge international seucurity and ...."., audience reaction is , then you loose ratings, the sponsors go away..and no more show like that.

And I still think the supporters of war get a more favorable environment than opponets. sadly, reasoned debate is limited to a few PBS shows.

	11-03-2003 22:23									#45
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand What does the number of times matter? If you can't pray, you can't pray. If there's separation, there's separation.

This is what conservatives always fail to understand. No school led prayer != no prayer. Students are allowed to pray in school, and always have been. Schools must make allowances for the religions of its students. They may not, however, direct them. This is no different than letting Jewish kids out for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur or letting Christian kids out for Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

What woud be prohibited is if a Muslim teacher led muslim students in prayer or if the school provided a place for them to worship.

	11-03-2003 22:28									#46
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quote: sadly, reasoned debate is limited to a few PBS shows.

What about Meet The Press?

	11-03-2003 22:34									#47
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Schools must make allowances for the religions of its students.

Why? The school is the state, teachers may schedule
around religious holidays but with more and more
faiths to handle, eithier the schools must cater to each and every one or none.

	11-03-2003 22:36									#48
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Nah.. their single person interviews are fine, but since they want a big audience, they usually bring in political figures (either elected representives or columnists) to debate. These folks have reasons to stick to a party line more than really get at an exchange of ideas. It si the same in the News Hours on PBS: the debate they have ongoing after newspieces, where they get a panel of no name experts is susally more informative than things like Shields and Gigot/Brooks.

	11-03-2003 22:39									#49
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quote: Nah.. their single person interviews are fine, but since they want a big audience, they usually bring in political figures (either elected representives or columnists) to debate.

They had Richard Perle and that anti-war ex-senator I mentioned earlier on two weeks ago. It was a pretty good debate from two non-elected officials...

	11-03-2003 22:43									#50
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Non-elected does not make one non-political (hence the addition of columnist).

Perle does have the ear of the government, so he is not really an outsider at this point.

Maybe I am too much of a pretend Academic (until I get a PhD, and then I can be an Ivory Tower elitist!) to find much value in "debate" by pundits with severe time limits. Give me a couple of hours, not a couple of commercial breaks.

	11-03-2003 22:45									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Actually I am, so my comments stand. Are you old enough to vote? or just old enough to blow reefers and get girls pregant and look for a shoulder to cry on on the internet? Smokin' reefers at 11:20?, don't have a job do ya. Pathic really. Seems I know more about you ya little winer than you know about me. So don't judge lest ye be judged, and your judgement is already questionable.

LET'S GIVE HIM A HAND FOR THE WONDERFUL SPELLING AND COMPLETE INABILITY TO PICK UP ON BLATANT SARCASM, FOLKS: THIS MAN REPRESENTS THE CANADIAN LEFT!

	11-03-2003 22:50									#52
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quote: Give me a couple of hours, not a couple of commercial breaks.

Well if that's your standard, then why are we even discussing TV? I happen to agree with you, but I'm not above taking in TV debates on a regular basis as well..

	11-03-2003 23:42									#53
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quote: What woud be prohibited is if a Muslim teacher led muslim students in prayer or if the school provided a place for them to worship.

che,
Releasing moslem students from class to worship comes awfully close to providing a place to worship.
Would they do so everyday?

I have no problems with religious holidays, so long as the student does not miss too much of their education in the process.

quote: No school led prayer != no prayer.

I'll second that. Christians should be able to pray at lunch without fear of discrimination. However, I can't say that I ever saw this in any of the public schools I attended.

	11-03-2003 23:57									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka LET'S GIVE HIM A HAND FOR THE WONDERFUL SPELLING AND COMPLETE INABILITY TO PICK UP ON BLATANT SARCASM, FOLKS: THIS MAN REPRESENTS THE CANADIAN LEFT!

Sarcasm has an element of wit. Your posts do not, nor
ever have, contained that element.

In cyberspace no one can hear you scream...
But they can SEE it

What a Brain.

	12-03-2003 00:00									#55
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Psst.

There are Yanks out there.

No sense in getting them all smug, eh?

	12-03-2003 00:26									#56
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@ obiwan.

Us? Smug? Never.

-Arrian

	12-03-2003 01:16									#57
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The antiwar protesters in my home town waved with Sovjet flags.

That is not really an invitation for conservative war-protesters like me.

	12-03-2003 01:23									#58
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 che, Releasing moslem students from class to worship comes awfully close to providing a place to worship. Would they do so everyday?

Preventing them from worshipping would be unConstitutional and since they are required by their faith to pray towards Mecca five times each day, it would become rather disruptive in class when the Moslem students interrupted class to begin their prayers.

	12-03-2003 01:24									#59
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It's the same in Spain and Switzerland, and I'm sure it's also the same in all the other countries. Some powers are manipulating goodwill people who show that they don't want war and using them to fight western values. I hope they realize before it's too late.

	12-03-2003 01:40									#60
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Regime change in America! Attack America, Not Iraq!

Ok.....but be gentle with Canada....al we have are blue hats and hemp.