11-03-2003 18:55									#1
	Feeling the need to boycott? Don't worry about France... Boycott this! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In the media and sometimes on these forums, I hear the collective voice of stupidity calling for boycott of French products because of their opposition to the war. I have a much better idea. If you want to affect the trail of money that leads to terror, boycott oil imports from the Persian Gulf. It's no secret that the Saudi's funnel money to terrorist groups. And while D1ck Cheney might not have a problem doing business with Saddam (Haliburton), I don't think we should be buying Saddam's oil... or the oil from Saudi's or Kuwaiti's, who in my opinion, syphon more money to terrorist organizations that Saddam.

Below is a list of oil companies, from the US Department of Energy, that import oil from the Persian Gulf region. While boycotting gasoline might not be an option, certainly we can all choose to buy gas from companies that import little or no oil from the region that supplies terrorists organizations with money via charities and such.

quote: JANUARY - JUNE 2002 (Thousands of Barrels) Company Total Persian Gulf % Persian Gulf MOTIVA ENTERPRISES LLC 126,969 106,397 84% CHEVRON CORP 124,843 70,614 57% PHILLIPS 66 CO 110,172 11,872 11% EXXON CO USA 104,966 39,332 37% SUNOCO INC 103,625 2,428 2% MOBIL OIL CORP 100,276 6,029 6% VALERO MKTG & SUPPLY CO 84,895 60,212 71% MARATHON ASHLAND PETRO LLC 84,421 39,911 47% AMOCO OIL CO 80,633 15,236 19% FLINT HILLS RESOURCES LP 68,527 7,898 12% CITGO PETRO CORP 62,180 8,593 14% LYONDELL CITGO REFG LP 45,551 5,621 12% PHILLIPS PETRO CO 42,460 6,915 16% PORT ARTHUR COKER CO 32,444 2,969 9% BP OIL SUPPLY CO 25,359 524 2% ORION RFNG CORP 24,183 918 4% PREMCOR REFG GROUP INC THE 20,997 3,394 16% MURPHY OIL USA INC 20,483 2,963 14% ATOFINA PETROCHEMICALS INC 20,038 7,486 37% ARCO PROD CO 16,114 4,242 26% DIAMOND SHAMROCK REFG & MKTG 9,999 713 7% FINA OIL & CHEM CO 8,882 4,039 45% ULTRAMAR INC 7,881 632 8% LION OIL CO 5,448 5,448 100% TPI PETRO INC 5,441 4,472 82% HUNT CRUDE OIL SUPPLY CO 5,381 2,683 50% KOCH SUPPLY & TRDG CO 4,922 1,039 21% BAYOIL USA INC 2,965 2,965 100%

I know its kind of messy, you can follow the link below to see the statistics in a much better format. But the numbers are pretty easy to understand. The percentage is the total percent of the companies' oil that is imported from the Persian Gulf region. Instead of boycotting France for its opposition to the war in Iraq, how about we disrupt the network of terror that has attacked us?

	11-03-2003 18:56									#2
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Here is the link for those of you that want to investigate these statistics.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petr...mports/cli.html

Comments?

	11-03-2003 18:58									#3
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We should build solar driven cars only

	11-03-2003 18:59									#4
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BP Amaco is going to get most of my business from now on...
BP OIL SUPPLY CO 25,359 524 2%

The stats I quoted are sorted by total amount imported from the Persian Gulf.

Motiva and Chevron appear to be the worst ones.

	11-03-2003 19:01									#5
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But why is importing oil from the gulf region as such bad? Donīt they pay for it?

	11-03-2003 19:02									#6
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You know that the US imports about 50% of the oil it uses anda large percentage of those imports come from the gulf right?

So whilst you are boycotting are you going to cut US oil use overall or, if not, where are you going to get all that replacement oil from? Venesuela has capped it's exports now...

	11-03-2003 19:08									#7
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OPEC effectively controls the output of oil from other non-Gulf countries. By sending a strong message to those b4stards, maybe it will affect the amount of oil coming from the Gulf states. Maybe other countries will step in to meet the increased demand. I'm not very knowledgable in how the international oil trade works, but I do know that if enough Americans take action, some sort of change will occur. Perhaps that change will be that the Saudi's will not support terrorists. Or perhaps we will become more independent in our energy consumption/production. Perhaps it will increase demand for more fuel-efficient vehicles, or alternative fuel sources. The point is that if you want to affect the money going to terrorists, you need to attack the source. Money from Gulf oil is linked to terrorists.

	11-03-2003 19:42									#8
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In the same line of reasonning, it seems that Europe and the US citizens are spending huge amounts of money in buying (and consuming) illegal drugs. A portion on this money is financing terrorism.

Dont you think that coherent citizens should boycot illegal drugs first?

	11-03-2003 19:49									#9
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maybe we should eliminate the problem by denying that terrorism is funded by middle east countries (since there is no proof, they are not quilty).

	11-03-2003 19:50									#10
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9% of our use comes from Iraq. We've waltzed down this road before.

	11-03-2003 19:55									#11
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It would be more interesting to know which US politicians received funding for their election campaigns from the companies that import a high percentage of their oil from the Gulf.

An ethical crusade against that source of funding might have some effect.

The best long term answer is to adopt energy efficiency as much as possible and leave the arabs to drown in their own oil.

	11-03-2003 20:02									#12
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I'm not talking about only Iraq, Slowwy. Clean your reading glasses .

And in terms of the so-called "drug funding terror". I bet that more oil money gets funneled to terror. Plus, most marijuana (at least that I've been exposed to) is grown in Mexico or by people in the US. British Columbia also has a large marijuana growing industry. In fact, that whole ad campaign about drugs funding terror is pretty weak. And since the Taliban is gone in Afghanistan, poppy seed production (for opium) has gone up big-time.

And for the record... Bush senior works as a liason for American oil companies to the Saudi's. Cheney worked for Haliburton which sold Saddam 73 million dollars worth of oil equipment. Makes you wonder, huh?

	11-03-2003 20:02									#13
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The american energy strategy is to save up their own oil reserves for later generations and depleed other foreign sources first. this way they will be able to have lower energy costs (keep prize low by force) and in the same run have energy in the end when others have not.

the safest would ofcourse be to invest in sustainable energy sources like wind and solar power, but i think thats too expensive.

	11-03-2003 20:05									#14
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DL!!!!! YAY!!!!!



Oh by the way... according to something I heard on CNN Crossfire, the only reason the US isn't paying $5+ per gallon of gas like Europe is because the US government gives huge subsidies to the oil industry close to 9 billion a year and rising. IMO this is a very anti-free-market way of doing business.

	11-03-2003 20:08									#15
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quote: Originally posted by woke26 The american energy strategy is to save up their own oil reserves for later generations and depleed other foreign sources first. this way they will be able to have lower energy costs (keep prize low by force) and in the same run have energy in the end when others have not.

I dont think this is at all correct. If the US is trying to save up its domesetic reserves, why do we continue to pay subsidies to domestic oil producers? , propose opening up Arctic National Wildlife Range, and coastal drilling leases? Consume any domestic oil whatsoever??

Nice idea Sava, but the complexity of the market makes this strategy difficult. For example, where is Shell, the world's second or third largest oil company, on this list? And who has ever heard of Motiva Enterprises? Many oil companies buy some of their crude oil from intermediate merchants. which most consumers have never heard of.

A better strategy is to increase US gasoline taxes by 50 cents per gallon. That would have best been done on September 12.

	11-03-2003 20:15									#16
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it is correct Adam, it doesnt conflict the stimulation of 'domestic' oil. Enhancing the capacity of oil production in your own country is only a savegaurd for situations like this, where oil prizes get extremely high.

When oil is cheep --> use foreign oil.
When oil gets expensive --> make war.
If that doesnt work: --> use own supplies

	11-03-2003 20:34									#17
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Woke:

That is a remarkably uninformed view, and I would hope it is not widely held.

If imported oil is less expensive than domestic, it is natural that oil imports would rise. This happens in every country in the world.

Any country which refuses to use our own oil when it is less expensive costs itself real money now for a "maybe" benefit later. Why do that?

And if we do start wars in response to higher oil prices, who did we attack when OPEC raised oil prices to record (real) levels in 1974 and 1978, and why are we attacking Iraq when prices have recently been fairly low in real terms?

	11-03-2003 20:46									#18
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you are right. its not market working. what i explained is a strategy, to save energy for extreme situations. to make war when oil gets expensive was a silly statement. I should have said: war in order to save the storage of your own oil for later use. everyone knows that oil reserves are depleted in 50 years. after then what? since america doesnt do sustainable energy, they will need their own reserves.

	11-03-2003 20:52									#19
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH You know that the US imports about 50% of the oil it uses anda large percentage of those imports come from the gulf right?

The biggest foreign sources of oil to the U.S. are Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Canada, Venezuela, & Nigeria. Russia is moving up fast but existing pipelines mean it's going to be easier for the Russians to ship to western Europe.

The Europeans are the ones buying most of Libya & Iraq's oil. BTW oil companies and refineries cross sell to each other all the time so it is almost impossible to tell where your oil came from. The best you can do is buy a fuel efficient car thus using less gas. That's wy I drive a four cylinder (that and it was cheap).

	11-03-2003 21:29									#20
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Good insight Oerdin...

In the end, Oerdin is right. Fuel efficiency is the way to go. I suggest the government stop its oil subsidies to the government. That would free up a lot of money to help the ailing economy via decreasing the deficit. Sure, have gas around 5 bucks a gallon would suck. But it would sure force the car companies to get with the program. The oil market in the US is being held afloat by these subsidies. Hopefully, most of the capitalist 'Poly members will agree with me that this government support of business needs to stop.

	11-03-2003 21:36									#21
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro We should build solar driven cars only

Seriously, either produce electric cars running on electricity from nuclear plants, or cars running on hydrogen.


In fact, any method of reducing oil consumption is good.

	11-03-2003 21:40									#22
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Another way is heating efficiency, but the biggest is nuclear electricity.

	11-03-2003 23:17									#23
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I second slowwhand.

BUY CANADIAN

All the oil,
None of those Saudis.