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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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Okay, I'm starting a new thread on this, it would get swamped in the lego comments.
As can be seen in the last few messages from and to legoland, they are offering us to split research, and if I understand most comments on this board, it seems we shold do this somehow.
There are a couple of issues left:
1. They will be slower ni research, they think they'll end republic no later then turn 89. If we would not grow, and would not build any cities, we would end in 89 too, a precise calculation would be required to see when we will end exactly (Aeson, possibly you have indicated this in your scenario, but unfortunately I still didn't find any time to check it out)
2. They are proposing us two options: either an NDA, where the cost is 1/4 of beaker cost, or no NDA with 1/2 cost, but in this case they are going to trade it to at least 2 other teams: GoW and RP (deals already in place). They want to gain techs to advance to the middle age.
3. Vox. We know we're going to need to give republic to them, but possibly, we could use what we gain from them (polytheism?), together with whatever legoland will research to get the last tech we'll need.
4. Are we going to try to delay the rest of the teams or not? If we want to, it will probably mean we can't gain new techs, and thus can't advance to the middle age immediately. If not, we need to make arrangements to trade republic around, before someone else will.
5. Also, please comment on what I can disclose to lego: the precise eta on republic, the deal with Vox (which I would still keep secret), etc.
DeepO
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:26
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If Lego isn't already committed to trading away Republic, what I'd like to suggest is that we research Republic, Lego researches Construction, and Vox researches Polytheism and tries to trade for Currency. If they can't trade for Currency, we or Lego can research it. That would give us an overall position of technological leadership.
Such negotiations would require explaining to Lego that we're already committed to trade Republic to Vox as part of the agreement by which they helped us research prerequisite technologies, but that we have little doubt that Vox will be willing to join us in keeping Republic out of Bobian hands. And while Vox is not big enough or rich enough to share equally in the cost of research, their lack of size and wealth keeps them from being the kind of long-term threat the Bobian civs are.
If my read on Lego's research rate is right, they're very likely the civ that keeps swapping places with us for #1 in GNP. If so, that could be truly excellent news. The two of us, maybe with Vox tagging along behind and feeding us gold or maybe without, should be able to outresearch the rest of the world nicely unless all three Bobian civs join forces.
Even if Lego is already committed to trade away Republic (at least to the point of not being able to back out without unacceptable diplomatic harm), we could still look into the possibility of a tech partnership beyond Republic to try to pull away from the rest of the world.
Nathan
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zeit
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Meet my blade!
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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How does Vox fit into the puzzle?
How about just taking Vox out of the puzzle: once the Republic is researched and given to Vox (after things are straightened out with Lego, of course), i think it will be time to revise, or say goodbye to the current arrangement, and make a new one.
We can start doing that now- telling Vox this partnership should be revised. Of course- we might lose their free tech, but it might be better for us in the long run, won't it?
I think both Lego and us realize the potential of a commerce based cooperation. If you add to that Vox as a sidekick, and even if not- we can become an unmatched economic powerhouse.
Lego, with a decent continent and a small island, will probably stir away from conquest- they're position is relatively safe, unlike that of Vox, which is closely inspected by the Bobians, and that is, and will be a liability for us.
As for the NDA againat non-NDA- the question is, do we want to delay Republic for Bob? even if we want to- how long will we be able to do that?
I suggest we sell it to them without NDA, but also split the market between us, we will sell it to Lego and ND, and give it to Vox, i think it's pretty balanced.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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Would it be possible from us to get both currency and construction out of legoland, if they instantly trade republic to GoW and RP, while we sell it to ND for gold, and Vox for polytheism? Lego should agree if they can get both republic and polytheism from us, to give us both last techs in return (I don't care how they'll get them, by own research or bought / traded).
If so, we could gain at least 3 techs, and perhaps up to 150 gold from republic, which should get to us without too many headaches, but we would lose the time advantage.
We could possible build in delays, though, by making them part of the deal with legoland: both of us can wait one turn before trading the tech onwards. with some more diplomatic delays, most teams would get into republic 3 turns after us. But, that would also probably mean we would get the last techs later...
DeepO
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12-03-2003 00:08
). That should be important info in possible negotiations.
) 
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