12-03-2003 12:58									#61
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Ramo: You can't claim to be someone's friend if you stab them in the back. Friend's just don't do that. What Chirac has done is the diplomatic equivolent to a stab in the back and this is what has pissed off so many people.

	12-03-2003 12:59									#62
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quote: And it will keep getting tabled, and there will be no debate on it. The motion for tabling does not include debate on the merits of the bill itself, but on why the bill should be considered (ie, what is new about this).

*Sigh*
Yes, I'm saying that it should be debated instead of tabled or never brought up.

quote: It doesn't? So what does an ally do? Run around the world actively stirring up opposition to its other ally? If so, why do we want allies?

To deal with real threats instead of senseless American agression to gain more international clout.

	12-03-2003 12:59									#63
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yes but he has the right to veto whatever he wants.

It was our fault for allowing that sorry nation to be on the security council.

What were we thinking?

	12-03-2003 13:00									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Ramo: You can't claim to be someone's friend if you stab them in the back. Friend's just don't do that. What Chirac has done is the diplomatic equivolent to a stab in the back and this is what has pissed off so many people.

It's not a stab in the back. You never got any sort of general agreement for war in Iraq, so you can't be surprised when people oppose you.

I brought the example up before, but do you remember Suez?

	12-03-2003 13:00									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident yes but he has the right to veto whatever he wants. It was our fault for allowing that sorry nation to be on the security council. What were we thinking?

You're getting 3 vetoes on Iraq. That might tell you something.

	12-03-2003 13:01									#66
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And it's doubtful that you'll even get 9 of 15 votes...

	12-03-2003 13:01									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger The US isn't exactly being the best ally to France either. It's been pursuing an Iraq war since 2001, and hasn't listened to its allies' objections. So suck it. You get what you give. You've been feeding the Euros ****, and they'll feed it back to you.

Well, yes, as I've said elsewhere, if the Euros wish to be contrary, lets rumble.

But don't pretend you're our friends, and don't come running to us when you get in over your heads (again).

	12-03-2003 13:04									#68
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Perhaps you're fooled by the flag, but I've never been to Europe.

I'm voicing my support for opposition to war. I choose not to make my flag France's because I sense opportunism on the part of Chirac. If they had a different President, I might choose to hoist the Tricolour.

	12-03-2003 13:05									#69
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quote: Yes, I'm saying that it should be debated instead of tabled or never brought up.

That's nice, but I'm talking about reality not fantasy land.

	12-03-2003 13:06									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger It's not a stab in the back. You never got any sort of general agreement for war in Iraq, so you can't be surprised when people oppose you. I brought the example up before, but do you remember Suez?

Well, you know, even Mssr. De Villepien (sorry for the spelling) has been quoted as saying a veto "would be shooting the Americans in the back". So that is clearly a fair characterization.

	12-03-2003 13:09									#71
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quote: Originally posted by LoneWolf Well, you know, even Mssr. De Villepien (sorry for the spelling) has been quoted as saying a veto "would be shooting the Americans in the back". So that is clearly a fair characterization.

quote: French FM denies saying veto would be "shooting the Americans in the back"

http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/w...o.RPVH_DM5.html

	12-03-2003 13:10									#72
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News Flash: Diplomat denies saying something that has become inconvenient!

	12-03-2003 13:13									#73
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News Flash: newspaperman's word was the only source of the quote.

	12-03-2003 13:15									#74
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Well, honestly, they don't even deny it in the link you provide. They only say its not their official position. And the quote was from French source papers. not likely to make their boy look bad.

	12-03-2003 13:15									#75
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That would be an extremely stupid thing for him to say. It's not as though it "became" inconvenient.

It's always possible that he said it, but given that there was only one source and it's not verifiable, it's open to question...

Now if we want some real doozies we should just all listen to your Secretary of Defence for a few minutes...

	12-03-2003 13:19									#76
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LoneWolf: that entire aticle is suspect. Apparently it also claimed that Villepin said that France had "all but ruled out using its veto", when in fact the official position of a few days ago was that they definitely would use their veto.

It also changes the tenor of the reported comments from"we will use our veto in order to shoot the americans in the back" to "we cannot use our vet, because it would amount to shooting the Americans in the back".

Sounds fishy to me. So fishy, in fact, that your post was the first I'd heard of it...

	12-03-2003 13:52									#77
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Greasy Tuesday doesn't sound right

	12-03-2003 17:00									#78
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Kids with guns.

No wait.

Spoiled kids with guns.

	12-03-2003 17:06									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia Yeah I think we should call condoms FREEDOM LETTERS!!! Those cheese eating surrender monkeys don't deserve to have a slime-filled squidgy amine-reeking used prophylactic named after them!!! GO TEAM US!1!1!1!!!!11

Are you referring to "Freedom Ticklers"? They are available in Red White and Blue for only .75 in the mens room at your local service station.

	12-03-2003 17:09									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger News Flash: newspaperman's word was the only source of the quote.

In defense of the newspaperman, I have noticed the the French Foreign Minister's english gets a lot worse whenever he is asked a difficult question.

	12-03-2003 19:51									#81
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It seems that all "international diplomacy" has been reduced to a prickwaving dickfight. Pathetic, but not surprising. We expect more of our leaders, but really, they're just as petty and insecure as anyone else.

	12-03-2003 20:15									#82
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Just shows how ignorant Americans can be, especially as French Fries are so named because they are frenched not because they are French.

	12-03-2003 20:17									#83
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I'd expect a more mature publicity stunt from professional politicians

	12-03-2003 20:24									#84
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Some people fear the military-industrial complex is dominating american policy and society.

Based on this random stupidity, Im more afraid of the influence of the NASCAR demographic, aka silent majority

	12-03-2003 21:03									#85
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I hope you'll be handing the Statue of Liberty back then...

Apart from the fact that the overwhelming majority of the entire World is against war - which should be a good reason in itself, perhaps France remembers when the US used its veto during the 1956 Suez crisis...?

What goes around comes around - plain and simple!

There is a right way and a wrong way to go about divesting Saddam of any WoMD he may still have and the US is doing it in the most inconceivably wrong way possible!

	12-03-2003 21:37									#86
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Thanks End*. Nice you call all americans ignorant. Isnt it also ignorant to stereotype?

Stupid. French fries were made in belgium not france. And they do it with mayo over there. Not ketchup.

ahh Mobius. Public opinion has no bearing on important decisons like this. Ask any holocaust survivor

	12-03-2003 21:56									#87
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory ahh Mobius. Public opinion has no bearing on important decisons like this. Ask any holocaust survivor

Sounds like you've been reading a good dose of Orwell there.

Do you mean the fact that the US sat on the fence for over two years - America only fought the Germans after Hitler declared war on them in support of Japan's attack on them. America didn't give a sh*t about the Nazi persecution of the Jews - in fact it continued to persecute them after the war by forcing them to go to Palestine when most of them wanted to go to the US...

So don't go bringing the holocaust survivors into this...

	12-03-2003 22:11									#88
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Oh dont start with that stuff again.

War is never a popular thing. Its just terrorism in a restrained form. But..you have to do what you have to do. That said Saddam is still in breach of UN resolutions. And you realize that backing out now means Saddam wins and containment goes the way of the 90's. What does that message send to N.Korea? Future tinpot dictators?

Nobody wants civilians dead and I sure hell dont want soldiers dead. But I trust (and so should you. But I have my doubts) that Coalitions forces will be swift about the matter and by mid april Saddam will be a bad memory. And the new government in Iraq will not look very kindly on those who wanted to give saddam yet more time and chances.

	12-03-2003 22:12									#89
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Freedom Measles anyone?

Saueryank?

	12-03-2003 22:17									#90
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Freedom Connection? Sounds better than french actually.

This probably wont catch on like Frankfurter things.
We will see tho if McDonalds does it.