12-03-2003 19:27									#1
	GS-Lego trade mess Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I just had a conversation with Vondrack.

It seems we made a mistake. We gave CoL as part of our deal with Lego. When we aquired CoL from GS, it was with a ten turn no-trade clause attached. By completing the trade with Lego we violate the trade agreements with GS. We have work to do. We either go to GS and discuss this (as it was purely a mistake) and see if we can't change the deal, or we just don't accept the trade with Lego. Either way, we screwed up. I am going to post this right away so others can see this and start to take action.

	12-03-2003 20:39									#2
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Fess up, admit the blame and explain it to both teams. Mistakes happen, let's not go ahead and actually break the treaty.

	12-03-2003 22:07									#3
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I wish it were that easy. A deal is going to get broken.

We have two options:
1) Go through with agreed trade with Lego and violate no-trade clause with GS.

2) Stick with trade with GS and break trade with Lego.

3) Fess up, go through with trade with Lego and ask GS what they want for compensation for our mistake.

4) Fess up, stick with trade with GS and re negotiate agreed upon deal with Lego.

Ok, that four options, so what.

I think we should talk to GS to see what they would want and go through with trade to Lego. I have talked with Vondrack and he believes me that we just made an honest mistake, but admited that Lego would be VERY upset with GoW. I would have contacted GS, but I am not an official ambassador there. I think that job is Unortho's.

	12-03-2003 22:28									#4
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I haven't been doing any of that since I left in January for a while. Ill go write to zeit and explain the situation, though, and ask what their wish is.

Sent this to zeit:

quote: Honorable zeit, It is with a heavy heart that I must approach you today. There seems to have been a mistake having occured within Glory of War headquarters where one of our members accidentally offered Code of Laws in a deal to Legoland. Legoland agreed to this deal, but when the deal was presented to GoW as a whole, it was immediately recognized that this was in violation of the no-trade clause that was agreed to in the original deal with Gathering Storm. The deal has not been completed as of now with Legoland, but it is their intention that it will go through, despite our explaination of the situation. We are asking, therefore if there is some form of compensation that we can offer GS in order to make up for the mistake that was made in violation of our trade that will allow us to continue the trade with Legoland? Respectfully, UnOrthOdOx, Joint foreign affairs consul of the GoW team

	12-03-2003 23:08									#5
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We could offer them contact with Lego and/or Philosophy for free providing they never give it to Vox.

I honestly had completely forgotton that CoL clause.

	12-03-2003 23:14									#6
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb We could offer them contact with Lego and/or Philosophy for free providing they never give it to Vox.

We might not have a choice. We really screwed this up.

quote: I honestly had completely forgotton that CoL clause.

Yes, I know it was an honest mistake that none of us noticed. You posted the deal for discussion before you did it and we all drew a blank on it. I only discovered it when Vondrack told me that GS was mad at us. We all thought nothing of the No-trade clause on the CoL as we all thought the tech was just for getting to the new age and paid no thought to it. We all just need to be more diligent.

	12-03-2003 23:28									#7
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Wait a minute I may have a way out, we gave contact with Lego to ND, let's have ND give CoL to Lego for us (as they also have it) and we give Lego the other techs.

	12-03-2003 23:40									#8
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This is a possibility.... but it would prove to the world about the good relations we have with ND.

	12-03-2003 23:42									#9
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No one has to know what we were FORCED to pay them to get them to get us out of this mess.

	13-03-2003 00:00									#10
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Ild rather just offer GS free contact with Lego, personally.

zeit is not online right now... who plays their turns, perhaps I should PM them?

	13-03-2003 00:11									#11
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Sir Ralph and nbarclay

	13-03-2003 01:40									#12
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I think ND should give it to Lego, at least we salvage a reputation, unlike Lux & RP.

	13-03-2003 02:55									#13
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Hi all,

I deal with Zeit and GS.
And must admit, I missed this one as well.

I would rather upset Lego than GS.
GS can hurt us more than a builder team as this stage in the game.

Lego is being unreasonable, we gave them a damn good deal to bring them up to tech speed. It matters not if they have to wait 10 turns to get CoL.
And we can probably arrange for ND or RP to sell it to them on our behalf.

Tell Vondrak we made a mistake, and we would ask that he allow us to back out of the deal and give them CoL in 8 turns.

I have had dealings with Vondrak in PBEM. He drives a hard bargain, but he also knows whats best for his team. Tell him we feel he is being unreasonable and we want to delay the CoL transfer....or we can do it backhanded through someone else. If he accepts the deal, then tell him many of our team will be pissed. what is comes down to, is that we gave him a good deal to forge excellent relations, remind him of that. If he pisses us off by not giving us an out, then many of our members will be pissed with Lego for not being flexable, and demanding a tech that they dont really need anyway.

I cant do anything now, as I am at work...good luck with anything you guys come up with.

	13-03-2003 03:01									#14
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I like the idea of having RP do this for us if lego refuses to deal. It would divert attention from any possible alliance with ND, but might cost us a bit.

Update:

zeit has been online and read the PM, I also copied it to nye who has also seen it. GS now knows for sure that we are admitting a mistake. Sorry if I stepped on your toes there H_E, but I thought something needed to be done and the sooner the better.

	13-03-2003 03:17									#15
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Update from GS:

quote: UnOrthOdOx, Respected consul of the Glory of War. It is sad that we have to discuss such an issue in the first communication we've had for such a long time. First, let me congratulate you for returning to office. Just clarify this one thing- who am i to send communiques to, Hot_Enamel, GF, Panzer32, or you? And now, for this pressing business. This issue is of great concern to our team- we hold the agreements we sign with high regard, and see this breach as a serious one. Yet, it seems like your team is willing to work this thing out, so that all those involved are satisfied. We realize you wish to carry on with the deal you have with Legoland, and share this desire- we don't want this incident to possibly do more harm then it already has. But, as you said, we deserve certain compensation. Suggestion for proper compensation are currently discussed on our boards. When our team reaches a decision on the matter, which shouldn't take very long, i'll give you word of that. I hope this matter will be resolved quickly. Yours Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm.

I will answer him that H_E is the primary contact for GS.

	13-03-2003 03:17									#16
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Just letting evryone know, that my timezone really sux. When I agreed to take on GS, I told Panzer that he will have to deal with GS if anything important/urgent comes up.

Unortho...No Probs mate...go for it.

I have also just PM'd Zeit a personal note appologising for the screw up, and telling him that because I am at work, I will have to let my team members sort it out.

Good Luck guys.

	13-03-2003 16:11									#17
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Just my personal opinion...which may be too late anyway.....

Lego got a really good deal from us to bring them up to tech parity. The plan was to use this first contact get get a strong partner in Lego, and also make some money by reselling contact.

I believe Lego are being completely unreasonable. They got 4 techs for 1 !!!!!!!!
And that 1 tech would be available from GS in a couple of turns later. Lego should of been reminded that they got a good deal and that they are risking our friendship over not being a little bit more flexible.

I am most certain that GS & Lego have been talking and they have come up with this plan to screw us. Lego are taking this stance to hurt our relations with GS...and now GS and going to use the situation to screw us over compensation.

I say we should take a stand, and call Lego's bluff. Tell them we insist they give us the opportunity to come up with a solution for all parties. If they dont, tell them they have made an enemy.

donegeal, you have to play good cop/bad cop.
You are the guy in the middle...the good cop. Tell them the team is furious that they wont give us the opportunity to back out of the deal. you are the good cop..on their side...but you need them to be flexible to appease the bad cop GoW team...

blah blah blah...I have said enough.
Sure I have spent alot of time trying to heal our GS relations after the first trade fiasco. So I have an interest in treating GS right. But I just think Lego are being completely unreasonable after what we did for them.

The only other point is, I would rather have a pissed off builder team than a pissed off GS. GS are a much more dangerous team.

	13-03-2003 20:08									#18
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I think we should offer to split all of our profits from trading contact with Lego and selling Philosophy with them for our (my) mistake.

Here's 20 gold now go sit in the corner.

We can probably make more off of Polytheism since we are the ONLY civ that has it.

You do realize that we are the wealthiest (341 gold) and the most technologically advanced (we have every tech everyone else had and one tech no one else had) civ in the game right now. How the heck did that happen?

	13-03-2003 20:45									#19
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GoW also stands for Glory of Writting.

	13-03-2003 20:45									#20
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How many turns are now left on the NO-trade clause, anyway? 6? 7?

I say tell Lego to wait, and we'll throw in a bit of cash for the inconvenience.

	13-03-2003 21:09									#21
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They already have it. Its too late to deal with Lego. We need to see GS take on the matter.

	13-03-2003 23:01									#22
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We should have asked both ND and RP to sit on the save for their 24 hours to give us time to work this out first...

	14-03-2003 05:10									#23
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I think this type of mess-up was what the central trade thread tries to alleviate. Everyone, before making a deal, check there, and after making a deal, edit the post.

	14-03-2003 07:00									#24
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From zeit:

quote: Honorable consuls of the Glory of War! The time has come to set this thing behind us. I have recieved both GhengisFarb's and UnOthOdOx's letters, and realize the urgency in solving the matter, before you have to send the savefile onwards. The problem is that here were two , a bit different, offers for compensation, one from GhengisFarb and one from UnOrthOdOx. Both shared one thing, and it's Legoland contact, but were different in the additional gold compensation. I do not wish to influence the debate on your team, if such one exists, on what sum of gold is appropriate. Any of these offers is adequate, and will allow the GoW-Lego deal to be carried out without any reservations from us. In short, either contact with Lego plus half the gold you got from trading their contact, or contact with Lego plus half the gold you got from trading with Lego is fine by us. You may carry on with your deal with Lego, and send us their contact, as well as a sum of gold that reflects one of these two offers. Yours Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm.

	14-03-2003 07:15									#25
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if we chose this one: "contact with Lego plus half the gold you got from trading with Lego", we only have to trade contact, since no money switched hands!!