13-03-2003 00:20									#1
	Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL Remove this text

This is just a question from a ''fictional'' point of view.

Let's say that France, Germany, Russia and China declare war on the U.S. would they be able to win? Do you think america would resist?

I think they'd be overwhelmed and wouldn't be able to compensate.

	13-03-2003 00:22									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

They'd lose. They're just a big bunch of Euroasiawussies, afetr all.

	13-03-2003 00:22									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Such a war would probably eventually result in America splintering into a handful of different nations and yes, it would spell the end of it's reign as global imperator.

	13-03-2003 00:24									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Tsk, tsk tsk, Spectator, you're in violation of the two thread per day limit. Any further attempts will result in suspension.

RAH

	13-03-2003 00:34									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Got your PM. THIS time i'll close the other one and reopen this one. The rule is not intended for people to shotgun and then see what sticks and then decide which one they want opened. It's to reduce CLUTTER and spamming. But I'm feeling generous today and you were nice about it, so I did as you asked and didn't restrict you. Please remember for future reference.

RAH

	13-03-2003 00:36									#6
	Re: Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Spectator Let's say that France, Germany, Russia and China declare war on the U.S. would they be able to win?

No. It's one of the beauties of having an ocean between your nearest potential military rivals. Water is a superb barrier to invasion.

	13-03-2003 00:41									#7
	Re: Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Spectator Do you think america would resist?

Uh... Yeah.

I'll avoid the rest of the scorpion/spider fight supposition.

	13-03-2003 00:44									#8
	Re: Re: Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No. It's one of the beauties of having an ocean between your nearest potential military rivals. Water is a superb barrier to invasion.

Yea, ok. But I think that with todays thecnology the planet is so small that it doesn't make that much of a difference.
Understand me well, I think it does make a difference but not as much as in world war 2.

	13-03-2003 00:46									#9
	Re: Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Spectator This is just a question from a ''fictional'' point of view. Let's say that France, Germany, Russia and China declare war on the U.S. would they be able to win? Do you think america would resist?

Yes, and yes.

	13-03-2003 00:49									#10
	Re: Re: Re: Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Spectator Yea, ok. But I think that with todays thecnology the planet is so small that it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I've yet to see any convincing evidence of that though.

	13-03-2003 00:50									#11
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Americas end as global leader? FICTIONAL Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I've yet to see any convincing evidence of that though.

Just stealth weapons for example, satellites, long range missiles....etc....

	13-03-2003 00:54									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

. this doesn't explain how they win an allout war against the US.

I imagine they probably could, but not using those.

Oh, and NO NUKES.

	13-03-2003 00:55									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Spec: The only countries to have much of that are the US and Russia.

None of our potential adversaries have much by way of navies.

	13-03-2003 00:59									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Spectator Just stealth weapons for example,

Can be detected. In addition to that air power alone have never won a war against a Great power. I'd even dispute its efectiveness as a sole weapon against minor powers.

quote: satellites,

Don't win wars.

quote: long range missiles

Again they don't win wars. If you are going to invade the territory of a Great Power, you have to occupy it with troops.

	13-03-2003 01:04									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by DanS Spec: The only countries to have much of that are the US and Russia. None of our potential adversaries have much by way of navies.

Ummmmm, I think...no, I'm pretty damn sure China has those, as for Germany they DOES have those. Germany is one if not the most richest country in the world.
China has 4 million soldiers ready for action.

	13-03-2003 01:07									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Spectator China has 4 million soldiers ready for action.

China doesn't even have the naval assest needed to invade Taiwan. I think we can safely ignore any soldiers China might have in this scenario.

	13-03-2003 01:08									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Can be detected. In addition to that air power alone have never won a war against a Great power. I'd even dispute its efectiveness as a sole weapon against minor powers. quote: satellites, Don't win wars. quote: long range missiles Again they don't win wars. If you are going to invade the territory of a Great Power, you have to occupy it with troops.

Dude, stealth weapons CAN be detected, not sure to be.
Satelites are for spying, nowing where to strike. Satelites dont win wars but they sure help a whole lot.
Long range missiles dont win wars but they can strike strategic targets, such as bases, radars, boats, carriers, airports, banks, factories. Today, there is almost no use for Bombers, they took their jobs.

	13-03-2003 01:10									#18
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

any of the countries named in topic would be able to wipe out the whole american continent within less than one week. germany will need some months for preparation though, since they haven´t any nukes yet. but after all I don´t see how the US could be able to prevent their being wiped out by any other countries nukes.
the counterattack will destroy trhe rest of the world too, so guess yourself who will win.

	13-03-2003 01:11									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

These threads are usually pretty ugly displays of tubthumping American twatriots and their European counterparts.

	13-03-2003 01:11									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Double reply:

quote: Just stealth weapons for example,

And who has those....

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Can be detected. In addition to that air power alone have never won a war against a Great power. I'd even dispute its efectiveness as a sole weapon against minor powers.

Kosovo and Afghanistan. Troops had to move in afterward to occupy but the wars were fought and won with airpower alone.

	13-03-2003 01:12									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If the countries you mentioned DoW'd the USA, the first problem they would have would be GETTING to the USA.

France has ONE modern carrier (the DeGaulle), and it has been plagued with problems since it first set sail, and before. China....now THERE's a nation that leaps off the page when you think Maritime power....

The long and the short of it is that if the three countries named laid down such a declaration, and if we forego the nuke option, then there's precious little they could do to the United States. We surpass them (even combined) in air power, and we could toss their combined navy aside like it was just so much flotsam. France and Germany are almost completely reliant on US airlift capacity to move their troops from place to place, and somehow, in the face of a declaration, I just don't see us being generous enough to offer our assiatance....

-=Vel=-

	13-03-2003 01:12									#22
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc China doesn't even have the naval assest needed to invade Taiwan. I think we can safely ignore any soldiers China might have in this scenario.

But chineese soldiers can be parachuted from german or french planes, dropped by french boats and both ways with the russians. China has the men and the other countries have the thecs.
As for china invading taiwan, they have so many men that they could drop by with yats and still win.
Imagine 50000 yats with 10 men abord each of them, taiwan has no chance in hell.

	13-03-2003 01:14									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

so are you suggesting that the other countries would mount conventional warheads on their ICBMs?

I'll give you a couple of hints, to the way this debate CAN be won by your side.

Guerilla warfare, and terrorism, united foreign policy, sabotage, propoganda, hurting economic infrastructure.

You'll have to attack sources of raw materials, because everything can be produced in the US, and their economic, and manufacturing power is close to unlimited.

	13-03-2003 01:15									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Spectator Long range missiles dont win wars but they can strike strategic targets,

Until you can give me a serious reason why the UK wasn't knocked out of WWII by German bombing, I'm going to regard your assertion as being specious at best.

	13-03-2003 01:23									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Cuz the U.S. saved their ass. They begged and begged the U.s. to join the war and churchill was pissing all over him self.
They dont make bombers no more, long range missiles are within 2 feet of accuracy and costs a lot less than a bomber.

	13-03-2003 03:54									#26
	Support Apolyton

TU 160 and few cruise missiles. If Europe would transfer some planes on places that US need, US would have several problems. And I don't think that Arab countries would be happy that US would try to be world leader.
UK could be thank to its EU ties with France on this one. And Saudi would do against US as well.

Thread on US x rest of the world, it could be interesting.

What US president said: US are at 6:1 dissadvantage to rest of the World?

	13-03-2003 04:07									#27
	Tired of ads?

More wet dreams by people who have played too many strategy games.

	13-03-2003 04:18									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

btw. is bribing allowed or not?

	13-03-2003 04:21									#29
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by oedo btw. is bribing allowed or not?

I'm sure it would be apart of any war

	13-03-2003 04:41									#30
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Firstly, England withstood years of German Assault without cracking and without US assistance. We'd soaked up the pressure and were starting our counter attack when the US entered. I think most Historians would agree that America NOT entering WW2 would have meant a prolonged route to victory (for england) or a stalemate, England simply woudnt have lost.

Anyway, On topic.

There is no way this Alliance could overhaul America , As Vel says they coudnt ship thier troops and attack forces accross to America.

Secondly do you think the UK would stand by and let our good friends in America suffer?? Look at the Force we're ready to send to the gulf, that alone would wipe out France and Germany combined.

Thirdly, how many countries would sell thier values for some good American Dollars?? America has so much Wealth it could buy a whole heap of Powers, who do you think Japan would ally with? Thier rich neighbours of America, or this supposed Alliance and be the first to have thier arses kicked!

On a Final point, while economically those powers suggested might add up to something, Military speaking the only country there of any note is Russia, who are light years behind the US.