13-03-2003 06:22									#1
	Air Drop bug? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I was looking through some of the old posts on this board, and I saw someone mention the air drop bug. Is this the ability to use air drops multiple times in one turn? Because I've always done this, and I wasn't aware it is a bug.

	13-03-2003 08:59									#2
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yup

each unit can only drop once per turn-- otherwise units can span the globe in a turn and attack on the same go--

	13-03-2003 15:09									#3
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Ditto.

You should have been aware it's a bug, because if you attempt to do it with the menus or with the keyboard shortcut, you get a game message stating the operation is illegal.
ONLY by using the mouse-shortcut (right-click on the landing tile), you'll be able to exploit this interface loophole circumventing the explicitly stated and game-defined limitations.

For sure the foremost effect is allowing you multiple drops in the same turn.
I can't recall whether this technique also allows to bypass the dropping *range* of 8-tiles (prior to insertion of course). You migth argue that the bug allows you to extend the range anyway by chaninng multi-drops. Remember tho that each drop takes 20% healt away from the unit... BTW, can't recall, I figure that's cumulative, ain't it? that is the 5th drop in the same turn would kill your unit anyway, won't it? Or... is there a floor in the damage a unit can get down to in consequence of a drop???
Other 2 effects of the right-click drop bug:
- you can start a Drop from OUTSIDE an (air)base (against game explicitly stated rules). Without this glitch, a multi-drop would only be effective hopping from base-to-base until last jump...
- I "think" to recall you can have a MOVED unit still drop. If this is true, you can drop a unit, USE it (e.g to attack), and then DROP it BACK...

	13-03-2003 16:27									#4
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It won't kill a unit. The damage gets to around 96% IIRC, then stops no matter how many times you continue to air drop.

	13-03-2003 19:11									#5
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SMAX fixed this bug if I recall correctly.

	13-03-2003 20:28									#6
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No - smax still has it

(And as an aside, if one of the multiple drops is on a monolith, the unit repairs to 100%)

	14-03-2003 00:07									#7
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Googlie is correct, the bug has not been fixed, and is IMHO is one of the worst in the game. Too bad we will never see another official patch or SMAC2.

	14-03-2003 00:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Kaptain Ken and is IMHO is one of the worst in the game.

And a hard one to notice if you never use the keyboard commands. I played for a long time thinking this was how it was supposde to be.

	14-03-2003 00:47									#9
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Same here Static. I only use my mouse, so this is actually a surprise to me.

	14-03-2003 01:28									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Fazdaar Same here Static. I only use my mouse, so this is actually a surprise to me.

Multi-dropping can be a hard drug to get off of, especially if you've played that way for a long time. I always find myself thinking, "Well, I'm going to wipe them out anyway, why not speed things up..." But my resistance has been good (although not perfect ).

I've always felt Firaxis might have left this bug unfixed deliberately, as I'm sure there are many gamers who like to play this way.

	14-03-2003 10:09									#11
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No, I'm pretty sure some version of SMAX has actually patched this. The moment I read about this bug I tried it out and it has never worked on my copy of SMAX.

	14-03-2003 12:36									#12
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I'm pretty sure that the bug hasn't been fixed in the PC versions anyway, but perhaps the Mac or Linux ones?

It's strange how some people learn the various and/or mouse shortcuts differently. For a long time I didn't know what this bug was all about because I couldn't figure out how to make it happen - I just never moved that way (right clicking on the destination) - I thought that the bug must have been fixed in the later versions of the game and that the people talking about it must'nt have been using fully patched versions. Boy was I surprised when it turned out that there was a whole different way of doing things.

There is also something similar with artie - I think that one can fire a barrage from an artie unit aboard a transport using the same right click method, which the game would not let you do with the 'F' keyboard shortcut or the action menus. This feature is somewhat less black and white viz-a-viz its legality though because the AI is fond of using spore launchers on IoD's just that way - it can be a real PIA in the early game.

	14-03-2003 14:21									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 ...as I'm sure there are many gamers who like to play this way.

This is one of the most universally banned bugs in pbem.
Many players argue about different ways to approach the several loopholes left in the game by FurXs, but almost no-one ever asks to exploit this one.
{liking to play this way also means that you never read the manual or datalinks on the subject, or didn't care to heed what they said}

I am not an integralist, thus I'd be prepared to consider the wild idea of allowing it in peculiar, freak, everything-goes games (I remember proposing it to JAMiAM as a provocation), but it's a fact that it would most significantly ALTER the balance of the game after MMI.

At this point, do you know that (although limited by default) it's much more easier to see players agree upon "DW upgrades anytime" rule (i.e. even midturn)?
{Forum Wars rules allow it, for instance}
And that, coupled with (multi)drop, DW upgrades midturn would allow you to:
- drop a unit (this does NOT consume a movement)
- UPGRADE it to NON-drop design, via the DW (this way it still retains its movement intact)
- USE it to attack WITHOUT the -50% drop-attack penalty!
all in the same turn...

___

Alinestra, I too, as jdm, would invite you to double-check that you indeed *know* the *only* way to trigger this bug (RIGHT-click on the DESTINATION tile), before positively dismissing its presence in your SMAX instance-version.
I can only *confirm* it IS present in both my US-version SMACv4 & SMAXv2

It's not that I dont' trust your word: I just have too much experience in troubleshooting PC "expert-users" who just had their power-plug unconnected... = always check the obvious & trivial first

	14-03-2003 14:33									#14
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BTW, some technical consideration on how dropping works, aside from the Multi-Drop BUG.

I did some thorough study on its mechanics...

In summary:
TWO paramount parameters influence the way Drop works
1. the Drop unit being Combat or Non-Combat (any non-weaponed unit, REGARDLESS of armour for what concerns THIS feature)
2. The diplomatic stance coupled with the AirDefenses (AeroComplex, Interceptors) of the opponent base in whose radius you're dropping in

The above parameters influence the ability to drop, and the movements left after dropping.
In short, as a rule of thumb, non-combat units always freeze after a drop.
Air-defenses are effective against drop-combats only at Vendetta. With Pact, a drop-combat just lands in the pacted base. With Treaty, a drop-combat is *allowed* to drop into an empty base, albeit AirDefended, and directly *conquer* it while triggering Vendetta.
Beware...

	15-03-2003 00:30									#15
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My version of SMAX is the UK release... perhaps that got it fixed???

I'll have a check later this evening when I'm at home.

	15-03-2003 00:51									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MariOne {liking to play this way also means that you never read the manual or datalinks on the subject, or didn't care to heed what they said}

True, I never read the manual in detail. I had the foolish notion that if the game let me do it, it was okay. I know better now.

	17-03-2003 14:25									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Static23 ...the foolish notion that if the game let me do it, it was okay...

That would not be foolish ...except with this game...

...in which *usually* the game forbids you one operation (with an explicit ingame message) via one way to issue the command, and then allows you the same operation via another way...

This is dedicated to all those who think that at FurXs© they're NOT bad programmers...

	18-03-2003 03:21									#18
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I can confirm that the airdrop bug still occurs in my fully patched US version of SMAX, but I always did it by right clicking on the map and choosing 'airdrop here' over and over.