13-03-2003 06:39									#1
	Turn 17 Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

A fairly easy one, going by posted orders. We shall see.

	13-03-2003 06:46									#2
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No surprises. No barb within sight of Poly. 1 barb position 4 from bigfree.

Poly grows in 2. Granery complete in 12.

Actions:

Walva moves 6. Sees jungle on far side of river.

Wbigfree moves 2. More jungle. 1 more dye. Hills peeking out from under the blanket 1 1 and 1 4. Possible end of jungle 2 2; let us hope it is not the sea.

	13-03-2003 07:01									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Edge of the jungle... very cool. I get the feeling we're going to meet our first neighbors soon.

	13-03-2003 07:15									#5
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maybe a 2-3 more tiles, but close..somehow I have a feeling a neighbor is SW

	13-03-2003 07:29									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Agreed. I'd wager we definately spot somebody if we head SW for 2 or 3 more turns...

	13-03-2003 07:34									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Damn... that is a helluva jungle. Good and bad, I guess.

	13-03-2003 08:23									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I know saving the rainforest is the thing to want to do these days, but I would give Military Tradition and a copy of our World Map for a couple of buzzsaws right now...


Dominae

	13-03-2003 21:05									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It's apprent that our highest city density should be near that river with the cities founded on jungle adjecant to the river. Each city we found there effectely clears a jungle tile for free.

It's also going to be a lot of hard work to clear that jungle near the rivers, but we are industrious, and once we do so, we'll have high income.

Also, I'm not in favor of offensive military action unless somebody plants a city too close to that river basin.

	13-03-2003 21:57									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If that isn't sea, that's gonna save a lot on aquaducts

	13-03-2003 22:36									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Is it possible to have the "Turn Reports and Summaries" thread create a new page every 5 posts or something as there is getting to be an insane number of huge images on it. It doesn't bother me too much as I have cable at home and work but it must be killing people with 56k connections.
Another option would be if you edited the older posts and removed some of the larger pictures from all but the last 5 turns maybe.

	13-03-2003 22:49									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by jim_steer Is it possible to have the "Turn Reports and Summaries" thread create a new page every 5 posts or something .

There’s a link like that in the Info Centre.

	13-03-2003 23:30									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

(Apologies if I pull any fax paus here- I readily admit I haven't scanned through the huge amount of info on the last 16 turns that heavily- teacher's schedule here folks. )

Any thought been given to city number 2's placement yet? I think it's a pretty safe bet that the water mass on the southern edge of the map is lake- note how the coast east of Apolyton seems to swerve out to the east- it would have to be pretty contorted (not impossible, but improbable) to bend back around that fast.

I would also respectfully submit that perhaps we need to investigate what lies beyond that forest to the west, and that hilltop might be a good place to check from. It seems to me that area may have the most likely site for a second city, since battling the jungle immediately might be a waste of resources, and northward isn't appealing until we can run a lot of irrigation that way (I love irrigated planes, personally) but that worker's got enough to do....

If I'm looking too far ahead or doing something wrong, please don't be afraid to let me know- I'm new here.

	13-03-2003 23:48									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Fried-Psitalon, welcome on board! There has been some discussion about where to place the next few cities already, but it's a little hard to find. I plan to post a poll on the very issue once the Warrior that's closest to Apolyton reveals a bit more land to the SE.

For now, the three best candidates for the second city (IMO) are (from the capital):

1. 111 (that's SW-SW-SW)

2. 223

3. 3333

If you're confused about the numbers, they're just the directions using the keypad for movement.


Dominae

	14-03-2003 00:54									#15
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Well, here goes my first post on the board- althoug i've been stalking for the past two weeks...

That's one hell of a jungle we got!

As many have said, this will just make victory sweeter, we've triumphed in the DG, and we will do so here as well!

	14-03-2003 01:00									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

My vote is option 3 for the second city. Coastal + River + clears a jungle for free + grassland shield river tile that can be worked immidately. Exploration can only improve it's value.

I'm thinking that the 3rd city should be either 1122 or 11222 and that the 4th city should be a river city roughly halfway between where the above two cities are founded.

This would give us 3 cities along that river.

	14-03-2003 01:05									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I consider options 1 and 2 the best, since they will both have access to the Game tile. This will be important since Apolyton will only need it twice per pop increase to maintain 4 turn growth (10=3+3+2+2). Sure, site 3 is coastal, but that gives absolutely nothing in the short term (unless we see a Fish...). The River-bordering and Jungle-clearing arguments apply to site 2 as well, so I'm not sure why site 3 is preferable at this point. The reason why I put it on the list is that W3 (name?) might discover something important.


Dominae

	14-03-2003 02:11									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Why do we want a second city with access to that game tile. I want Apolyton to always work that tile.

	14-03-2003 03:09									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Apolyton doesn't gain anything (and usually only loses shields) by Working the Game tile for all 4 turns of growth. It grows just as fast by getting +3 food for 2 turns, and +2 food for two turns. Any excess food when you grow is wasted, you always start with an empty 'growth box' (Food box - Granary).

I like the second city 226. Built on the river the second turn after the Settler is active and opens up the shielded grassland. Has access to the game tile.

The problem with 3333 is that it adds a corruption at size 1 (commerce) and a waste at size two (or when the shielded grassland is mined), negating the commerce and production gained by opening up the shielded grassland on the river. It also takes until the third turn to found the city. Doesn't have access to the Game tile.

The problem with 223 is that it doesn't open up this shielded grassland on the river. It also takes until the 3rd turn to found the city. Has access to the Game tile though.

I know having 2 cities 1 tile removed from coast will drive some people insane, but we are packing the cities in, and we still will have a coastal city which can use all the tiles that 3333 could use anyways.

	14-03-2003 03:26									#20
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I think the water south of us is salty. I haven't seen that much fresh water next to that much jungle. Are there any rules from the radom map generator that would give hints as to what our land mass may be?

I'm basing my opinion that it is salty on my past experiences in the game and with evaluating maps in them. I may be wrong; but that's my opinion based on the information available.

I would put a 2nd city either 3-3-2 (too build workers and an occasional unit) or 3-3-3-3.

If we put it 3-3-3 we would be wasting a good shielded tile.

But before that I would want to take a look at what is available beyond 1-4-4; there could be an excellent city spot there as I see water peaking out west of those forrest tiles that lie directly west of our Capitol.

	14-03-2003 03:30									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

If Aeson is correct about the corruption and waste, then building at 3-3-3-3 wouldn't help us nearly as much as 2-2-6. Which means my vote goes to 2-2-6.

	14-03-2003 03:33									#22
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It is salty... right click on the tile and saltwater will show only 1 food. Fresh water gives 2.

	14-03-2003 03:38									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

We're on an oddly-shaped landmass. My guess is that branch-off to the east is a pretty big peninsula, but the map generator can surprise you sometimes. Continents "branching off" in this manner (to form a new large inhabited landmass) are very rare though... we'll see.

	14-03-2003 03:47									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Aeson It is salty... right click on the tile and saltwater will show only 1 food. Fresh water gives 2.

Thanks for confirming this.

I think we should consider locking up the dyes down south in the not to distant future. We have only one source of spices (that we can see), and since trade for luxeries can be very lucrative, having more than one source of a luxery will be a great benefit in the future. We should claim as many as possible as quickly as possible. In the process we could be securing more than one soucre of rubber as well.

	14-03-2003 03:52									#25
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quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 Thanks for confirming this. I think we should consider locking up the dyes down south in the not to distant future. We have only one source of spices (that we can see), and since trade for luxeries can be very lucrative, having more than one source of a luxery will be a great benefit in the future. We should claim as many as possible as quickly as possible. In the process we could be securing more than one soucre of rubber as well.

For some reason, I don't think finding rubber (pick the number of 'em) will be any problem for us...

But you're right. The more luxes we can get early on the better. Especially if we plant a city down there (with another team fairly close), they will think that the jungle is fairly thin, and we can assume control over all of the green-ness!!!

	14-03-2003 04:00									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would be in favor of our first non-Apolyton produced Settler heading to the other side of the Jungle to stake our claim, if at such point another team isn't already building there. Our new cities by then will also be for the most part 10 turn Worker factories, and a city S of the Jungle is going to be able to keep up the pace in that regard, after a delay in getting to their location of course...

I don't think we should purposely start any border disputes, so if there is a civ just south of the Jungle, we'd have to abort.

	14-03-2003 04:01									#27
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There is a team there...

Togas, time to get to work.

	14-03-2003 04:01									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

There's a whole lota green to conquer down there; if it were not for the fact that we are 'Industrious' I'd say we were in for hard times. But being as we are; I think that the 'green-ness' will be shunned at first by other teams and will be available for our Civ for a longer period of time and we can take advantage of that.

BTW, I'm not worried about our having rubber, but, the more we have the less other's do!

	14-03-2003 04:03									#29
	Put an end to popups!

We must negotiate for as much jungle as we can get, especially the luxes. We probably won't be able to get the very bottom one, but if we negotiate things, there's a slim possibility...

The more Workers the better. Get the axes guys.

	14-03-2003 21:22									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

226 is a horriable choice: That game tile will usally be worked by Apolyton, it's one of the dreaded tiles seperated by ocean by 1 tile, and it would make it difficult to cram 3 river cities in.

The corruption in 3333 will go away with a Court House.

quote: Originally posted by Aeson Apolyton doesn't gain anything (and usually only loses shields) by Working the Game tile for all 4 turns of growth. It grows just as fast by getting +3 food for 2 turns, and +2 food for two turns. Any excess food when you grow is wasted, you always start with an empty 'growth box' (Food box - Granary). I like the second city 226. Built on the river the second turn after the Settler is active and opens up the shielded grassland. Has access to the game tile. The problem with 3333 is that it adds a corruption at size 1 (commerce) and a waste at size two (or when the shielded grassland is mined), negating the commerce and production gained by opening up the shielded grassland on the river. It also takes until the third turn to found the city. Doesn't have access to the Game tile. The problem with 223 is that it doesn't open up this shielded grassland on the river. It also takes until the 3rd turn to found the city. Has access to the Game tile though. I know having 2 cities 1 tile removed from coast will drive some people insane, but we are packing the cities in, and we still will have a coastal city which can use all the tiles that 3333 could use anyways.