13-03-2003 16:52									#1
	Unnoficiat Poll - What do you want to play in the next DG? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

So... What do you wanna play, folks?
This poll is absolutelly non-official.

Options:

1- Vanilla Civ3, patched 1.29
2- Vanilla PTW
3- Double your Pleasure mod
4- Apolyton University mod
5- Any version, with the GengisFarb suggestion (2~3 civs playing factions of the same Democracy (specify)
6- I don't care, lets play banana.

	13-03-2003 16:58									#2
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Well, I voted Vanilla PTW, just to keep it simple.

	13-03-2003 17:16									#3
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Although I would like to play a DyP mod, I have to talk about some of the negetives of it.

1) The city view screen makes no sense. Every city receives a pyramid in the city view screen but its called a forge.

2) The mod still has some work that needs to be done. There are missing or incorrect entries in the civilopedia and there may be other little inconsistancies as well. To keep up with all these go here.

I am going to contact Kal-el, the designer of the Mod to let him know that we are considering this and for him to add some input about his Mod.

	13-03-2003 19:36									#4
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I need to know more about the mods. Just a general explaination about the differences so I can make an informed decision.

	13-03-2003 20:51									#5
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Option #2 with the latest PTW 1.21f patch.

As for which civ: Any civ that's neither Industrious nor Religious, thus maximizing the difference in civs. Perhaps Commerical should be avoided as well simply because our multiplayer game is playing a Commercial civ.

	13-03-2003 20:54									#6
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I voted vanilla PTW but I want to change my vote to the GengisFarb suggestion.

	13-03-2003 21:00									#7
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Vote DyP. It'll really make the next game much more interesting, and a lot less like this one (which would certainly increase the interest in our community and the number of active players).
Link: DyP homepage.

	13-03-2003 22:00									#8
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about the 2 DyP "negatives" brought up by Donegal:

The City Screen is messed up, no doubt about it. The City Screen is set up for the first 65 improvements in the editor and we rearranged the buildings in alpha order to make things easier on the player. The only way to fix it would be to figure out what buildings go where, change those, and then you would only get the first 65 of the 175 improvements to show up anyway. We concluded it just wasn't enough bang for your buck.

As for the Civilopedia, well, we are working on it. We were burning through Civilopedia editors at a fairly rapid pace, but recently they have all rejoined the team and we now have five people working together on the civilopedia so we expect to have that situation fixed soon.

I would be very interested in following the progression of a DyP Democracy Game.

	13-03-2003 23:01									#9
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Another vanilla civ SPDG, but we handicap ourselves. We take one of the worst civs possible - Greece would be appropriate and add flavor to the game. And we crank up the difficulty level one notch. And either go pangaea or archipelago. The continent set-up in the current game has meant that we have essentially won the game without much inter-action with a number of the civs in the game (ie on the other landmasses).

	13-03-2003 23:22									#10
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Pangaea is convenient... but Archipelago means lots of interesting sea maneuvers, and essentially a lot more naval warfare, which opens up a whole new aspect of war that we have had few chances to experience in the current game. My vote would be for Pangaea.
As for what we want to play - a DyP demogame would be a helluva lot more interesting than a plain flavor demogame. Just think of all the possibilities, and how much fun we can have in DyP... plus, consider that this would spark up a lot of attention and we'd have many more participants than ever.

	13-03-2003 23:30									#11
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Can someone please post in this thread the Ghengis Farb suggestion?

--Togas

	13-03-2003 23:40									#12
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Togas, this is what I found:

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I would still like to play a PTW Democracy version where our democracy was 2-3 different civs, and it was all out in the open. Each "team" would simply be a political faction.

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I guess, it would certainly allow for alot of roleplay as you could actively work at underminng the other faction(s) while calling them all sorts of names.

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I was thinking we should have rules to determine when a player should die off and be replaced by an heir/descendant. If three I was contemplating a Merchant Class, a Military Order, and a Religious Sect.

	13-03-2003 23:42									#13
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Very interesting ... perhaps this idea needs more discussion.

Clearly we should win such a game where we outnumber our AI opponents 3 to 1, and we may be forced to play at Diety to have a challange. But it would be fun to see who takes power in what "faction" and how the different factions work together or against each other.

I'd like to see more discussion on this idea.

--Togas

	14-03-2003 00:46									#14
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This map looked like a Pangena too me.

Even on a tiny map, sometimes when you select Pangena, one of the civs starts on a much smaller landmass than the others. The larger the map, the more likely this is to occur.

In a contiental huge map, we'd probably get something like 7 or 8 civs on the larger landmass, 6 or 7 on the slightly smaller landmass, and the remainders on other landmasses.

On an archepello huge map, there would probably be a 1 or 2 landmasses that start with multiple players, most landmasses with a single player, and some sizable landmasses that nevertheless don't have a starting player.

This game is also on Emperor level; moving up the difficulty level one notch would move us to Diety.

quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Another vanilla civ SPDG, but we handicap ourselves. We take one of the worst civs possible - Greece would be appropriate and add flavor to the game. And we crank up the difficulty level one notch. And either go pangaea or archipelago. The continent set-up in the current game has meant that we have essentially won the game without much inter-action with a number of the civs in the game (ie on the other landmasses).

	14-03-2003 00:48									#15
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On DYP, 175 buildings would seem to make Civ III too much work to be fun to me.

	14-03-2003 01:20									#16
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I don't really get it.

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I would still like to play a PTW Democracy version where our democracy was 2-3 different civs, and it was all out in the open. Each "team" would simply be a political faction.

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I guess, it would certainly allow for alot of roleplay as you could actively work at underminng the other faction(s) while calling them all sorts of names.

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb I was thinking we should have rules to determine when a player should die off and be replaced by an heir/descendant. If three I was contemplating a Merchant Class, a Military Order, and a Religious Sect.

Do the separate "teams" that are political factions each have their own civ and thus their own country in the game?
That is like we're creating another "team" dempgame like the current PTW Demogame but with an AI Civ.
Am I right or not?

Aidun

	14-03-2003 01:37									#17
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I think you're right, Aidun...
I like the idea, as I like the two suggested mods (DyP and Apolyton University), but...
Imagine that you are new in this forum, want to know how to play better, know better the AI behavior, etc. Man, you need a classical DG, vanilla flavor, a straight one... please, folks, think about that.
Other games, with more complexity and new challenges can happen at the same time...

Remember, guys, the DG is the front door to Poly for many people.

Edit:
A side note: many players only play single games. We have to take this under consideration.

Last edited by Aro on 14-03-2003 at 01:49

	14-03-2003 01:54									#18
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The GengisFarb idea will make for the most interesting game. If we play another normal game modded or not it will be too easy and too similar. If we play the GengisFarb game who knows were it might go.

	14-03-2003 01:57									#19
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hi ,

vanilla civ patched with the latest patch , today no 1.29 f

have a nice day

	14-03-2003 02:49									#20
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I read thru the DyP mod, and it's tooo much. So many differences; I don't think this would be good.

	14-03-2003 03:54									#21
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Love the DyP mod to bits, but I think it would be a bit too much of a step up for a Democracy Game right away.

PtW would be good, and I am tempted by the AU mod, seeing as it allows for a bit more of a challenge by addressing several balance issues, adjusting some unit strengths in doing so.

	14-03-2003 04:29									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Remember, guys, the DG is the front door to Poly for many people.

So it was for me when I joined in november/december 2002, that seems long ago now however

	14-03-2003 09:59									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I joined in july, 2002... I've learned so much, and now I'm a lurker on almost all fora dedicated to Civ3. Oh, and the off-topic forum too.
Guys, we need to play a simple and classic vanilla game. It's the perfect way to made contact with a lot of strategies to improve your game (When I came here, I only was playing in chieftain... I'm playing regent mostly now, with some Monarch games (I was defeated in my three Monarch games, but I'm getting better... The Ai will see... ).

	14-03-2003 11:36									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

I kind of liked GengisFarb's idea.
Maybe I would try to be more active in a game of that kind, if it was possible to make a team based in the the same time zone.

	14-03-2003 18:16									#25
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So far, I can see three majoritary tendencies:
Vanilla PTW,
Modded PTW (DyP or AU)
PTW, a Political & Diplomatic game with factions (GhengisFarb suggestion).

A couple of days more and I'll post a run off.

(Remember, this poll isn't official, it's just to feel the tendencies)

	14-03-2003 18:19									#26
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn On DYP, 175 buildings would seem to make Civ III too much work to be fun to me.

This is part of what makes DyP so much fun. You simply can't build everything. You have to be selective. It make for more diverse cities. More diverse strats. In vanilla Civ, all the cities end up looking pretty much like all other cities, that simply can't happen in DyP. It also covers a much wider range of possibilities. It adds entire time areas. Think about the Nepoleonic (speelling) Wars. Where are they in vanilla Civ? They aren't there. It adds the first form of flight, Ballons. It has an inproved feudal system.

The possibilities are endless.

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Love the DyP mod to bits, but I think it would be a bit too much of a step up for a Democracy Game right away.

Chicken!!!
j/k

	14-03-2003 21:43									#27
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I have to agree with donegeal about DyP. It's an amazing mod, and you really can't build everything. I know it, I've played the game... Your experience on Civ sometimes doesn't help, the alternatives are different. If we are going to a game on DyP, count on me.

All I'm saying is: WE NEED ANOTHER CLASSIC DEMOCRACY GAME, NEW MEMBERS NEED THAT, POLY NEEDS THAT.

Sorry for scream so loud...

	14-03-2003 21:58									#28
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I voted for vanilla Civ3 1.29, but would be happy with vanilla PtW in the latest version (1.21 I think). I would recomend away from any mods as it might keep people away and cause confusion later on...

	15-03-2003 00:47									#29
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Perhaps you could talk MarkG into creating a DyP Demo Game SubForum here and a Politcial DemoGame SubForum. Then leave the main forum for the Vanilla Ice Civ3DG.

	15-03-2003 01:08									#30
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I really wish the basic ideas for The GoW's feudal system were actually put in place, that could have been fun

but, thats for a much smaller team of people