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Mongoose
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Harrisburg,PA USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:26
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UoP does not have +1 EFFICIENCY.
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The Vagabond
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of realpolitik and counterpropaganda
Jan 1970
time: 05:26
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IMHO the University faction attributes should realistically be the following:
+3 Research
-1 Economy
-1 Industry
-2 Probe
But instead of one drone per four citizens, there should be one talent per four citizens.
Wealth should be an additional aversion (or instead of Fundy).
Edit: Besides, Network Nodes should not be available for free.
Last edited by The Vagabond on 15-03-2003 at 10:31
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Fazdaar
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IMO, wealth and research go somewhat hand-in-hand, so I don't think it should be an aversion. Your SE settings are more realistic though.
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Kirov
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Warsaw, Poland
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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But he'd have better tools to calm any riots and to impose mind control.
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Kirov
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Warsaw, Poland
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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That reminds me of another question - is foresting good or bad to the Planet, especially when you destroy fungus that way? Would Deirdre forest as mad or rather leave the specific ecosystem of Chiron unspoiled?
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Xian
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Morgan should realistically be -2 for everything - totally unplanned laisez-faire capitalism would destroy any economy in real life and people who study history would know what i mean
As for my high school...
+ 2 Industry - musical talent, technical talent, willing to work students (you should see our plays and talent shows)
+ 1 Growth - astounding ly high enrollment every year
- 1 Economy - cafeteria food costs too much and nobody can afford lunch; teachers way underpaid
+ 1 effic - fantastic improvisers
- 3 Police - students extremely resistant to police state
- 2 Morale - Massive racial tension
Cannot run Democracy or Fundamentalist (Fascist and Liberal at the same time)
Most likely Knowledge, although the football team is obviously running power
Somewhere between Cybernetic, Though Control AND Eudiamonic - you can see examples of all 3
PS the New York Physics Regents Board sucks
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Alinestra Covelia
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I sense the dodgy presence of Bing - a presence I've not felt since...
Feb 2000
time: 00:26
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Ideal capitalism is where all competitors serve themselves and their buyers by raising quality and lowering prices. This may be considerably more likely to occur in a completely unbridled economic state than it is in an oppressive state-controlled economy, but I still view a lack of all controls with extreme scepticism. Left unchecked by an elective government, a truly free economy will allow power to devolve naturally to the companies and entities that have the greatest economic clout. These companies will not be subject to the same democractic checks as an elective government, and therefore will have no onus to satisfy the commoner, apart from competition. Such an economy quickly becomes a monopoly and therefore ceases to be free. Under a monopoly, there is no longer any impetus to improve quality/price as competition has been eliminated. So a balance between the two needs to be found, plus I like to roll in the mud.
The Enixine household (such as it was) would probably fall under the following:
Efficiency +2 (recycle everything, including 20th generation used teabags)
Economy -2 (the reason why we recycle everything is because we have no money)
Growth +2 (considerable amount of sexual activity going on in the bedrooms, living rooms, over dining tables, against kitchen sinks, in the bathtubs, in the shower stalls, leaned up against the stairwell with your soles flat on the opposite wall, on the ironing board, and across both layers of the bunk beds. To name but a few.)
Police -1 (We stole a policeman's cap and several traffic roadsigns as well as some supermarket trolleys and a traffic cone so you probably couldn't call us disciplined)
Probe -3 (We were naive and feckless and easily impressionable, as the amount of hours we spent arguing over Chumbawumba cover quotations proves)
Support -5 (We were so anti-war that we protested war even when there wasn't one, taking the stance that protest should be 'proactive, not reactive')
Of course, we were very silly back then. Nowadays obviously we are much more intelligent and well balanced. 
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Xian
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quote:
Originally posted by CEO Aaron
People who studied history will note that the few periods of laissez-faire capitalism saw the greatest periods of growth and prosperity in human history. If you want to see rampant corruption, hideous waste, and brutal oppression, I can point you toward hundreds of despotisms with state-run economies, both today and in the past.
[/b]
When has there ever been lassaiez faire capitalism? America most certainly has never seen it, with massive state expenditures, corporate welfare, and Homestead access for cheap land. This is just as true in the 1880's as 1980's, and you can look it up in any textbook
Where excactly can you point out communist inefficiency? Certainly not Russia, where the entire country was modernized in a single generation. Certainly not China, where industry has boomed and Famines have been succesfully contained. And certainly not Cuba, where the state run economy has survived brutal terrorism and economic sancion.
Capitalism is not perfect by any means, and many industries require attentive regulation to keep them from becoming as bloated and inefficient as government's default state, but no other economic system has been successfully implemented which has better met the needs of its society.
The needs of society have always been and always will be met by massive state spending and protectionism. Imagine what would have happened if The united states in 1870-1900 had allowed for equal land access? There would be no railroad industry! Imagine what would have happened if Ronald Reagan had not instituted more protectionist measures since ALL PRESIIDENTS COMBINED since Roosevelt. The Japanese and German Industries would have swallowed us alive!
[b]
Both Russia and (to a lesser extent) China are even now in economic ruins _because_ of the systematic depredations of 30 years of wasteful planned economies and oppressive corrupt governments.
/flame off |
The opposite is true, where Planned economies have been MOST implemented, literacy rates, childcare, health etc. have been the BEST. As extreme United States terrorism and economic interference and eventually the fall of COmmunism occured THEN AND ONLY THEN did their economies fail. Now thanks to Capitalism Russia is in ruins and becoming the htird world
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Kirov
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Warsaw, Poland
Sep 2002
time: 06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
The Enixine household (such as it was) would probably fall under the following:
Efficiency +2 (recycle everything, including 20th generation used teabags)
Economy -2 (the reason why we recycle everything is because we have no money)
Growth +2 (considerable amount of sexual activity going on in the bedrooms, living rooms, over dining tables, against kitchen sinks, in the bathtubs, in the shower stalls, leaned up against the stairwell with your soles flat on the opposite wall, on the ironing board, and across both layers of the bunk beds. To name but a few.)
Police -1 (We stole a policeman's cap and several traffic roadsigns as well as some supermarket trolleys and a traffic cone so you probably couldn't call us disciplined)
Probe -3 (We were naive and feckless and easily impressionable, as the amount of hours we spent arguing over Chumbawumba cover quotations proves)
Support -5 (We were so anti-war that we protested war even when there wasn't one, taking the stance that protest should be 'proactive, not reactive')
Of course, we were very silly back then. Nowadays obviously we are much more intelligent and well balanced. |
 Where are those times now? *sigh*
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CEO Aaron
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Everything has its price. Even you.
Aug 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Xian
The opposite is true, where Planned economies have been MOST implemented, literacy rates, childcare, health etc. have been the BEST. As extreme United States terrorism and economic interference and eventually the fall of COmmunism occured THEN AND ONLY THEN did their economies fail. Now thanks to Capitalism Russia is in ruins and becoming the htird world |
If their economy was so sound, why was the United States able to reduce them to such a state of economic and social collapse with absolutely no direct military action? How can a nation with a robust economy and as ample natural resources as the Soviet Union had be unable to feed its own people? For _years_ before its collapse, they were suffering shortages of almost every concievable commodity, and in those conditions, corrupt party officials with criminal connections that are in existence _to this day_ reaped untold wealth profiteering off of the systematic mismanagement of their nation. The remnants of that corrupted system is the burden under which Russia is now foundering, not the horrors of a free market system gone awry.
I will never suggest that the Free Market is the perfect system for the real world, however I _will_ maintain that a state controlled economy is an express ticket to corruption and widespread poverty. In any economic system, there are going to be impoverished people. In a planned economy, however, EVERYONE is impoverished.
Alinestra Covelia: I certainly agree with your opinion on the need for regulatory controls on monopolistic markets. Certain industries, such as power, telecommunications, and perhaps even software are of such importance and offer such stiff barriers to effective competition that the only way to keep them balanced is through goverment regulation. If a free market ecoomy _does_ have a flaw (it does, it has several), its that in our current _political_ system, corporations are able to exert undue influence on government through political contributions. I don't think this is an indictment on capitalism so much as an indictment on political campaign finance.
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Xian
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"For _years_ before its collapse, they were suffering shortages of almost every concievable commodity, and in those conditions, corrupt party officials with criminal connections that are in existence _to this day_ reaped untold wealth profiteering off of the systematic mismanagement of their nation. "
^^ youve just described America under Reagan bush and Clinton to tee
We have Hundreds of thousands starving, are underproducting many VITAL commodities and are in a MASIVE RECESSION according to Unicef! Our government has many more ties to illegal dictators and international terrorist groups, so much so that weve been denounced by the world court! Are you going to say capitalism is "inneficient"?
"If their economy was so sound, why was the United States able to reduce them to such a state of economic and social collapse with absolutely no direct military action? "
You cannot possibly be serious. The United States has been responsible for overe 15 brutal wars in direct confrontation with Russian Imperialism. Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cuba, Cambodia, Korea, Practiaclly ALL of Latin America - the list of violent confontations goes on forever.
Of course the USA was far to cowardly to face the Communists directly, but imagine what would have happened if the Soviet Union Brutally invaded our friends inn Pakistan, Denmark, Mexico, the Phillipines, Southern Africa without ever firing a bullet at us? Would the certain economic collapse that follwed be considered "not directly confrontational"?
"I _will_ maintain that a state controlled economy is an express ticket to corruption and widespread poverty. In any economic system, there are going to be impoverished people. In a planned economy, however, EVERYONE is impoverished."
What you call "curruption" is the type of thing that is not only allowed but ENCOURAGED under lassaiz-faire capitalism - looking out only for one's self. So when a soviet oficial takes bribes to allow say - the russian mafia - to use land for drug harvesting its "curruption" but when the US government cheats normal people selling land only to railroad buisineses at 3$ an acre thats not an "express ticket to curruption."
And of course, you can complain all you want abouo Communist party "despots" - ignoring the fact that most are ELECTED, MASS SUPPORTED, and at least ARE SUPOSED to serve the public initerest ...
your average CEO cant say that
And my challenge still stands : name ONE human development that has risen from a "free-market" - id LOVE too see one
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Uchuu-kun[SM42]
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It was interesting that in the thread I started in alt.games.firaxis.alpha-centauri about a faction I was making, the discussion turned into a "What kind of attribs would a Dubya faction have" discussion. It was cool, but I wish my faction had gotten more attention...
[CPU Vox: "Drone Riots..."]
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14-03-2003 14:16
so I think we might have a problem here.
. Knowledge social choice does have +1 effic.
)
Alinestra Covelia! Young Lady, Go Straight To Your Room This Instant And Don't Come Out Until I Say So! 
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