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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Senate Leader ignores banana, is forced to scrap website war poll, blaming hackers
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MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 17:14 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Beware what you put on a poll: Senate Leader scraps website war poll, blaming hackers Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/29654.html
quote:
Senate Leader scraps website war poll, blaming hackers
By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco
Posted: 07/03/2003 at 22:55 GMT

Senate majority leader Bill Frist has yanked a "Bomb Iraq" poll from his website.

Frist's office told The Register that "tampering" was to blame for the removal of the poll, which asked "Should the United States use force to remove Saddam Hussein from power? Your opinion is important to Senator Frist."

"Clever computer programmers created a program that generated 8,700 votes in a day," a spokesperson told us. Which is where the mystery really begins.

The spokesperson couldn't say whether the software was running inside the firewall, representing a major breach of the Senate IT security, or was a robot-style vote generator run by netizens.

The curious thing is that Frist's poll page already banned robots - including the Wayback Machine, archive.org - from the site. Respondents could vote once and then return to the site later to change their vote; only the latest response would be counted.

"As you know government computers are constantly being attacked by hackers," he suggested.

Nor could Frist's office explain why the website administrators simply didn't exclude the votes they didn't want to count - Florida-style.

One correspondent has noted the increasing tally of No votes:-

"At 1:35 pm Washington DC time on March 6, the Frist site reported 31,118 responses to the war poll. Anti-war respondents (55%) had gained a clear majority over pro-war respondents (44.6%). (These figures do not quite add up to 100%, apparently because of the rounding method used by Senator Frist's staff.)

"Within the hour, at 2:23 pm, the anti-war fever had risen, with 56.9% anti-war, 42.9% pro-war. By 4:29 pm, according a snapshot of the Frist site, with 37, 742 total responses, the anti-war vote registered 59.5%, with the pro-war vote ebbing at 39.8%."

The Senate site has been defaced before. Whether this represents a new and more serious breach - as Frist's office suggests - we don't know.

But our enquiries continue. ®


http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/29713.html

quote:
Senate leader explains poll "hack"
By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco
Posted: 11/03/2003 at 23:53 GMT

Senator Frist's office has elaborated on its explanation of why it pulled a website poll about the Iraq war last week. We could find no evidence of a security breach at the Senate, although this was the primary reason suggested by a Frist spokesperson on Friday. In fact, the poll was hosted outside the Senate firewall, his office now confirms.

The poll was discovered by bloggers, including Tom Tomorrow, who linked to the poll while it was showing a majority in favor of the war. By the time the poll was pulled, the vote count had swung to the Noes.

"Our computer guy has identified one individual who voted 8,700 times," the spokesperson told us today. Apparently, the software deleted the cookie and voted again.

So why not simply discard the 8,700 suspect votes?

"We suspended the poll because it had been tampered with," he said. "If those votes came from 8,700 unique users we would not have had to suspend the poll."

Well, quite. Although it doesn't really answer the question of why those 8,700 votes weren't discarded, and the good votes allowed to count.

It's certainly a puzzle. Previous polls on the Frist website explain that the system detected and disallowed multiple voting. To do so effectively it must log a voter's IP address, rather than rely on a cookie.

But what if, as one readers suggested, the "hacker" was using a dial-up connection? Dial-up connections typically allocate different IP numbers each time you connect.

Well, assuming each connection could be completed in 1 minute and 20 seconds, a single dial-up user would need more than eight days to vote 8,700 times, assuming the he didn't sleep, that the ISP had 8,700 numbers to allocate, and that it didn't allocate the same number twice from its pool of IP numbers.

So we can rule that one out.

"We will ensure that this kind of tampering doesn't happen again," said the spokesperson.

Online election ballots, anyone? ®

Daz is offline Daz
Prince
of the wasteland.
Jan 2003
time: 05:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 18:32
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Suffering from ads?

He, he, he...senator. Can you say "SURPRISE!!!".

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 21:19
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Only well-behaved robots can be kept out. Robots ignoring rules don't care.

MarkG is offline MarkG
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  Old Post 14-03-2003 21:40 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

the "evil genious" routine hits again....
quote:
Clever computer programmers
you dont need to be clever to think of deleting a cookie....

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 21:48
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Good for the hackers. Frist deserved that crap. It's funny how Republicans will ask a question like, "Should Saddam be removed?" and then conclude that everyone wants war because they answered Yes. If they specified the question and told the truth about Bush's plan, more people would answer "no". And if this war is so "Just", then why lie about it?

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 21:55 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
"We will ensure that this kind of tampering doesn't happen again," said the spokesperson.


next time i'll hack for the pro-war option. i've got a dozen boxes with different IPs at my direct disposal.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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time: 07:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 21:55 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Increase the size of your Attachments

well the question did have the word "force" in the poll....

still, if you cant put up a decent ip&cookie protected poll, dont do it all. and if you do, dont blame "hackers" afterwards.....

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 21:56 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
well the question did have the word "force" in the poll....

still, if you cant put up a decent ip&cookie protected poll, dont do it all. and if you do, dont blame "hackers" afterwards.....


ip/cookies can be worked around.

it's these blasted usernames and human mods with DL detecting tools that do it

Alex is offline Alex
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Brasil
Mar 1999
time: 02:26
  Old Post 14-03-2003 22:00 Visit Alex's homepage!
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I can't believe that no one said this yet...

BLAME SKANKY!

MarkG is offline MarkG
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote:
ip/cookies can be worked around.
cookies, sure. IP, how?

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
Emperor
flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:26
  Old Post 15-03-2003 01:02 Visit Inverse Icarus's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
ip/cookies can be worked around.
cookies, sure. IP, how?


IP spoofing / trojan proxies.

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