15-03-2003 05:24									#1
	Turn 73, 1200 BC Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

To be edited by the leaders of the Scholia.

Status:
- Researching Republic at 100%, ready in 14 turns.
- 312 gold cash, +1 gpt (thanks to our 5gpt from ND).

Urgent questions:

Military:

Economy:
- EotS finishes a worker and starts another. Move the new laboier from the fur forest to the irrigated plains by Hurricane.
- Cyclone finishes a settler and starts another. City needs to work the irrigated fur, the mined wheat, and two mined grasslands with shield.
- Move new worker in EotS 9 (proposed move).
- Move worker by Bolderberg 1.



Diplomacy:

Thread library:
- Standing orders for workers

Last edited by nbarclay on 16-03-2003 at 20:57

	16-03-2003 20:01									#2
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Turn is here. Where are my orders?

GoW offers Polytheism. Do we have hammered out a deal or are they just giving it a shot to see what we offer.

EotS finishes a Worker and Cyclone a Settler. The Worker can go and improve a plain tile around EotS, but where shall the Settler go? IIRC, there's still one city site left in the south, I would suggest to go there.

Score information:

135 (+3) Gathering Storm
142 (+2) Demogyptica
119 (+2) Glory of War
149 (+3) Role Play
104 (+2) Vox Controli
154 (+2) Legoland

	16-03-2003 20:40									#3
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Sorry about not getting the economic orders written in time. I'll have them in a couple minutes, or I could play the turn if you prefer.

	16-03-2003 20:42									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph GoW offers Polytheism. Do we have hammered out a deal or are they just giving it a shot to see what we offer.

The latter. I suggest that we decline, since we'll get Polytheism from Vox anyway.

quote: IIRC, there's still one city site left in the south, I would suggest to go there.

Agreed.
I'll go find the latest city placement map.

	16-03-2003 20:44									#5
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The last city site in the south is 2 2 from Tornado, according to the latest city placement map that I have. Nathan, can you confirm?

	16-03-2003 20:46									#6
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I'm sort of inclined to send this settler north and have the next one from Cyclone finish settling our south. Whether we go with DeepO's plan or Aeson's, the next site to the north should have lower corruption than one to the south.

	16-03-2003 20:47									#7
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Yes, the last southern site is 2-2 from Tornado.

	16-03-2003 20:49									#8
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How about if we have the new worker from EotS move 9, road one of the furs we skipped earlier, and then do some work on the other side of the river? We're ahead in worker production and it won't be too long until we're in Republic, and we lose a turn any time a worker crosses the river anyhow.

	16-03-2003 21:05									#9
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Nathan, which northern site did you have in mind?
May I suggest the one that has access to incense, 774 from Tempest.

	16-03-2003 21:13									#10
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We don't really need the incense yet, and that's getting into relatively high-corruption territory.

If we go with Aeson's plan, the logical next city would be the one on the hill 8-9 from Tempest. If we go with DeepO's, it would be the one 8-8-8-8-9 from EotS. (Of course once the settler's on his way, we'd better choose which plan we go with pronto!)

	16-03-2003 21:24									#11
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Play the turn if you can, Nathan.

I still vote to leave the Settler south, as we have better terrain there than in the north, where it is almost worthless without improvement.

	16-03-2003 21:36									#12
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Either 8-9 from Tempest or 2-2 from Tornado are fine by me.

	16-03-2003 21:36									#13
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That's a good point. If we go with Aeson's layout, we'll have flood plains ready near the hill city when the settler needs them, but if we go with DeepO's, we'd probably do better waiting until our worker gets a little farther north. I'll check out the economics of Aeson's layout a little more before I play the turn and only send the settler north if I think that's the one we'll probably go with (if that's okay with everyone).

	16-03-2003 21:48									#14
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Looking back at Aeson's plan, the big problem I saw originally was that the "3" city probably needs moved. But it looks like that can be done without upsetting the plans for the hill city, and an extra city that doesn't need an aqueduct can be handy. So I'll have the settler head there, and a flood plains will be ready for him to work by the time he reaches his new home.

	16-03-2003 22:19									#15
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Don't tell me Vox build a colony.....

	16-03-2003 22:19									#16
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Madrid is growing again btw.

	16-03-2003 22:25									#17
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Could someone please check how far we are ahead in the demographics categories by temporarily changing laborer assignments to reduce the output and seeing how much shield production, commerce and total production we need to lose before we fall to #2 in those categories?

	16-03-2003 22:25									#18
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Okay, I won't tell you, since you've figured it out for yourself.

Vox seems to be improving their military: Last I checked (several turns ago), our military was strong compared with theirs, but now it's average. We're weak compared with everyone else, including Lego.

	16-03-2003 23:00									#19
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Mfg. Goods:
1st (tie) 25
3rd - 20
4th - 19
5th - 17
6th - 16

GNP:
1st - 44
2ond - 39
3rd - 36
4th (tie) 27
6th - 15

Productivity:
1st - 86
2ond - 69
3rd - 58
4th - 57
5th - 52
6th - 40

Note that based on the difference in productivity, the only way the same civ could be both the one that's tied with us in Mfg. Goods and the one that's closest to us in GNP is if several of its cities are running with less than a two food per turn surplus. Either our closest rivals in the two areas are different civs, or our closest rival is sacrificing so much growth that they won't stay our closest rival for long. Edit: I just realized my calculation above assumes the same number of cities. For each city less our rival has, subtract two food from what would be expected.

Edit: By the way, by my count, we're doing nine food better than the "baseline" of averaging two food surplus per city. So eight of our productivity edge is gold, shields, and/or the other civ seriously shortchanging itself on food. Edit: and/or extra "normal" food surplus from having more cities.

Last edited by nbarclay on 16-03-2003 at 23:18

	16-03-2003 23:12									#20
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Turn sent (after making sure I had everything back in order from all my playing with F11 stats).

	16-03-2003 23:56									#21
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay GNP: 1st - 44 2ond - 39 3rd - 36 4th (tie) 27 6th - 15

Vox?

Great. Our tech partners research almost three times slower than we do, and that will get worse in time. After we've gotten their free Medieval tech, I strongly suggest that we dump them as soon as possible without taking any "rep hits".

	17-03-2003 00:04									#22
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Vox seems to be improving their military: Last I checked (several turns ago), our military was strong compared with theirs, but now it's average. We're weak compared with everyone else, including Lego.

Maybe that's why they built that colony - in order to build Immortals.
Maybe we should send them a friendly note, advising them that military buildup is not the preferred course for their civilization, and perhaps giving them some stats on our current production, in order to scare them off of any military adventures. Also, it might be a good idea to move our spearmen forward, onto the mountains and into Vox's view.

In any case, there's no reason to fear a Voxian attack. We'll be seeing their immortals coming down 6 turns before they reach Dissidentville and 11 turns before they can attack Tempest. Also, Vox has pathetic production abilities - by the time they've amassed an army of immortals capable of attacking us, we could already have pikemen.