15-03-2003 19:50									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why not use the Lux forum ...

	15-03-2003 21:01									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Personally, I would like to keep that forum intact so that if in the Apolyton PTWDG we want to allow everyone to see everyone's forums after the game is over, that forum is still there. Converting it to ISDG use would mean either dumping all the messages there, or at the very least removing messages relating to the Apolyton ISDG team if any are there. Also. It would only be a stopgap measure since we would still need another forum when we meet someone else.

We are better of either using chats. I dont think we need Private forums solely for comms with each team.

	15-03-2003 23:06									#33
	Support Apolyton

You can set up a chat channel and make it password entry only. First person is the OP, they set "/mode +k Password" and /mode +p" for private. You then give the other person the password and they enter it be "/join #room Password". Simple. No need to make a special channel and register it. That's what we do in the RP room all of the time.

Also, when your Opposite ambassidor enters, you make him an Op too, as a sign of cortisey (sp) to them.

E_T

	16-03-2003 00:26									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by E_T ................................. Also, when your Opposite ambassidor enters, you make him an Op too, as a sign of cortisey (sp) to them. E_T

I like this, it's very civilized.

	16-03-2003 00:42									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I know about the chat channels. But my point is that is would be nice to have a private forum for this as well. It would be a supplement to that. It would be accessable to all of our team members and it would provide an easier form of communication between teams since the psotings are almost instaneous as compared to regular e-mail. It could aslo have the benefit of comminications happening in case of an emergency. If me, my assistant, or Togas isn't around and there's an message that needs immediate attention, the possibility of other team members relaying that message to our leader's is greater.

Since all dialog is to be posted in our forums anyways, our leaders will be more than familiar with what is happening in discussions. This gives them the chance to step in a conduct negotiations in our steed if we are unavailable for RL reasons. I can't imagine why anyone would be opposed to this. I'm talking of a single place in which all the comminications will take place. It would make it easier for it to be organized as well. Talks could be held in seperate threads for neogotiations that are held at different time periods and for differing subjects. This would make reviewing negotiations much easier for all team members.

Would we (ISDG members) be hogging up resources to do this? I don't think so. Is it a big pain the arse to set-up something like this? Again, I don't think so. It would be a nice thing for all and the other teams will think of it as nice also, maybe elevating our status with them as well as preventing misunderstandings since things can be organized better.

	16-03-2003 00:54									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Markos is lazy, so I doubt this would happen without a ton of prodding from 15 members. Yes, I mean you, the big hairy Greek breathing down my shoulder. No, please don't ban me.

*Trip wanders off into the mist.

In all seriousness, it takes Markos forever to impliment things (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and blame this on all the things he's doing, and his 4 illigitimate children ), so we'd probably need to ask him now and see when he could get it done.

	16-03-2003 01:12									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'd appreciate it if someone from our team who has a little more report with him than I do, could contact him in regarding this matter. I think it would be well worth while to do this, even if it couldn't be set up right away.

	16-03-2003 01:37									#38
	Support Apolyton

You mean one forum per team? 7 forums.

	16-03-2003 01:43									#39
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Why not use the Lux forum

That's a good idea. If we can just get Markos to rename it, change the civgroup of it, and make it a subforum of this forum.

	16-03-2003 01:54									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither You mean one forum per team? 7 forums.

Yes, I do.

I don't think that it would tie up anymore resouces that would one for all of them. Which we couldn't do, since the teams would want to keep their own negotiations with other secret for the most part.

I would really appreciate it if you could ask MarkG about this. Tell MarkG I'd send him some cookies for his troubles and that doing this would reflect well on his namesake, our in-game Leader!

	16-03-2003 01:58									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by civman2000 That's a good idea. If we can just get Markos to rename it, change the civgroup of it, and make it a subforum of this forum.

What's the difference from just adding a new subforum?

	16-03-2003 02:04									#42
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Trip What's the difference from just adding a new subforum?

I'm not sure, but I'd bet that if we make it a sub-forum, from this one, that we couldn't exclude the other teams from entering this forum as well.

I think we would have to have seperate private forums for each team. If we could make a subforum and make it so that the other teams couldn't reach this one, that would be great.

	16-03-2003 07:42									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Using a forum (whether an old one or creating a new one) would seem to be more trouble than it is worth? Will there be that much communication with one single team that it would require their own complete forum? I really don't think so.

It is inconvienent to ask members of another team to create an account at Apolyton (if they don't have one already) and then wait to get special permission to access a locked forum.

All of the same stuff could be accomplished in a simple email or using IRC if you wanted to.

Perhaps I am missing it, but what would be the exact purpose of having a forum and what would be the benefits of having one?

	16-03-2003 07:55									#44
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I agree with WhiteBandit here. What might happen if all the other teams asked us to register at their forums for communication purposes? I know I wouldn't join that many forums just for that purpose.

	16-03-2003 12:38									#45
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Only the Ambassador's need to register. I registered at CDG just so I could PM Kentonio; it took 1 minute, literally! A small, and not very lengthy process for a game that is bound to take up to two years to play.

The other teams could see this as a way to conduct negotiations in a more organized matter.

The fact that a new forum need to be created for this doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. The way I see the forums here they are just folders within folders that have special properties. I might be oversimplifying things; but I think that the board operators could basically just 'copy and paste' the format for a private forum into a new directory and give our leader's full access to it (like they do here) so they can admit whomever they need to without having MarkG involved more than just 'making' the forum.

On a seperate note:
Is it accepted or a rule (I would like to see it be so), that the talks conducted in a 'chat' are not official and they they are only used to help in negotiations and not to formalize agreements. I would expect that only PM's or other types of communications that would allow for a more formal tone would be considered official. Of course you can talk in general and even mention specifics but that nothing said in chat can be held as binding.

What is the current accepted status of 'chats' in other games right now?

	16-03-2003 12:50									#46
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit Perhaps I am missing it, but what would be the exact purpose of having a forum and what would be the benefits of having one?

I see it as a way to keep things organized for both parties. Not all negotiaions will be all encompassing; will will want to compartmentalize some of the things we want an agreement on. Their could be borders issues, Tech issues, War issues, Money issues, ect...

My idea is to be able to organize a forum with seperate threads for seperate issues as they arise. The other team's Ambassador and assistant would be the only ones authorized entry and the ability to post there. Only Apolyton's Ambassador and assistant will be able to post there; but all of Apolyton's members will have access to the forum so they can see the current negotiations as they are happening. They could chime in to the Ambassador, on a seperate channel (PM or in this forum) to offer instant advice.

The MoFA would be able to more easily oversee what was happening in the affairs of his Ambassadors because everyting would be in one place and it would be organized.

In case of emergencies, our leader's could authorize someone else to instantly step in and conduct negotiations. Time (and thus opportunities) would not be lost because all the 'talk' would be right there for them.

Please let me have a forum for this, it will be really good for our team, I promise.

	16-03-2003 13:05									#47
	Support Apolyton

bigfree, your idea is basically fine as far as the purpose goes - I agree a forum or forums like that would be an easy to review and quite naturally self-updating "archive" of all the diplomatic correspondence with a given team.

That said, I am afraid but I think that the technical measures that would have to be taken would not be worth this convenience. AFAIK, the access to private forums is handled by means of "civgroups" on Poly. That means that for every such forum, Markos would have to create a special civgroup and every existing and future member would have to be authorized to all these civgroups... having an idea how much Markos is busy (judging from how long it took to implement the new icon of Legoland, e.g. ), I feel it would be better to not even ask him. I know I would not dare to...

Even if it is generally less convenient and a bit more difficult to keep up to date, I suggest we stick to our dedicated "Correspondence" thread. All it takes is a couple of ambassadors that check their email/PMs often and promptly repost received messages in that thread.

As for the chats... I believe that it is generally accepted that chats are more or less informal consultations used as an aid to finalizing a written "treaty" quicker. It may be a good idea to make this clear during the initial contact phase.

	16-03-2003 14:08									#48
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by vondrack That said, I am afraid but I think that the technical measures that would have to be taken would not be worth this convenience. AFAIK, the access to private forums is handled by means of "civgroups" on Poly. That means that for every such forum, Markos would have to create a special civgroup and every existing and future member would have to be authorized to all these civgroups...

I was thinking that a 'civgroup' could be created for each of the 7 other teams and that you or another one of the Consuls would be in control of those groups(Taking the burden from anyone else.) With the only hassle being that they need to be created. We could propse names for the groups to make it easier for whomever. The Consuls would admit into those groups all the Member's from Apolytons team(for each civgroup) and then only the Abassadors from each of the otther teams into the appropriate 'civgroup'

I admit I do not know how much work it is to set up 'civgroups' and to transfer control to someone else. I do not know if a forum is automatically created when a 'civgroup' is created (that would be great) or not (bad.)

I would be willing to administer all of these groups, if you saw fit to ask me.

I hope I'm not sounding like a pain in the arse about this, but I think that it would really be beneficial to our team to have this. I also think that the other teams would react warmly to this idea.

If it doesn't work out, oh well, at least I know I tried.

	16-03-2003 14:09									#49
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 On a seperate note: Is it accepted or a rule (I would like to see it be so), that the talks conducted in a 'chat' are not official and they they are only used to help in negotiations and not to formalize agreements. I would expect that only PM's or other types of communications that would allow for a more formal tone would be considered official. Of course you can talk in general and even mention specifics but that nothing said in chat can be held as binding. What is the current accepted status of 'chats' in other games right now?

It's entirely up to the parties. All that is required for any agreement is for both sides to "agree" to a set of terms/obligations.

We can use email, PM, or chats to make such agreements. When agreements are made in chat they are recorded via chatlogs, and the relevant text from the log is posted in the correspondence thread for later reference.

--Togas

	16-03-2003 15:15									#50
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 I was thinking that a 'civgroup' could be created for each of the 7 other teams and that you or another one of the Consuls would be in control of those groups(Taking the burden from anyone else.)

...effectively taking the burden upon themselves. As if they had not work enough... j/k - I know you later offered your help managing these forums.

quote: If it doesn't work out, oh well, at least I know I tried.

OK, then, I will try proposing the idea to Markos... even though I am not going to push it if he shows even a slightest sign of "disapproval".

	16-03-2003 17:04									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by vondrack OK, then, I will try proposing the idea to Markos... even though I am not going to push it if he shows even a slightest sign of "disapproval".

Thanks, remember to tell him about the cookie's if can come through.

	16-03-2003 17:19									#52
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I'll bet that the Persians want to plant a city right on top of where our warrior is right now (or very near the dyes). It would explain why they are so eager for us to move. Let's keep an eye on their population; they are at 3 now if they are going to build there soon, then their pop will drop soon also.

	17-03-2003 14:56									#53
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Just to make sure that it is noticed... I had an error in the summary table for Turn 19 - forgot to lower the beaker cost of BW based upon our contact with CDG. Fixed now.

	17-03-2003 22:28									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Consuls, does everything look in synch with the proposed build queue I posted in the toppoed MoI thread (exact number of Shields, Food, Science, etc.)? I just want to make sure there are no discrepancies between the actual game and my testing. I know I could just open up the save and check for myself...but that would require some work on my part, and who wants that?




Dominae

	18-03-2003 00:12									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Consuls, does everything look in synch with the proposed build queue I posted in the toppoed MoI thread (exact number of Shields, Food, Science, etc.)? I just want to make sure there are no discrepancies between the actual game and my testing. I know I could just open up the save and check for myself...but that would require some work on my part, and who wants that?

Yeah... who wants that...

I have just checked and everything seems to be okay. The only small difference is that we forgot to reassign the new labourer last turn, so it is working the forest tile now, instead of the bonus grass, as outlined in the general MoI plan... should even out on turn 26, though, so hopefully it's not a big deal. Sorry for the oversight.

Science is different, because of the contact with CDG, of course. See the summary table.

	18-03-2003 19:37									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by vondrack I have just checked and everything seems to be okay. The only small difference is that we forgot to reassign the new labourer last turn, so it is working the forest tile now, instead of the bonus grass, as outlined in the general MoI plan... should even out on turn 26, though, so hopefully it's not a big deal. Sorry for the oversight.

Forget it. Everything is as your plan outlines. I misunderstood nye who played Turn 19 for us and thought he left the new Apolyton labourer on the forest tile. But he did reassign it properly according to the plan, which I've found out only this turn. Sorry, nye & sorry, everybody, for the confusion.

The Turn 19 report has been fixed to show correct data.