16-03-2003 02:02									#1
	to play fair, or not to play fair Increase Your PM Length

Even though I will enjoy this game and the choice between going between the ages slowly or quickly; I still would like to crush my enemies and have a huge superiority in every area. So to get to the heart of the matter, will there be cheats in the game?
Thanks

	16-03-2003 03:00									#2
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Yes in single-player, no in MP. And in MP, too you can't get a huge lead even if your opponent is much worse than you due to the fact that the players that are behind get slight bonuses, and those ahead, get certain additional hurdles to jump over.

	19-03-2003 22:49									#3
	Got spare money?

It's just the ramping costs right? Or do you get any other bonuses for being backwards

	20-03-2003 03:44									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Yes, there's a bonus for aging up when you are behind in ages. Its slight, though.

	20-03-2003 04:26									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

well it depends on how bad your opponent is...there is always people who are so bad its not funny, and even with ramping costs its no contest

	20-03-2003 08:21									#6
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how many accually expect to be cheating, i know i will, but rarely

	25-03-2003 09:47									#7
	Put an end to popups!

the occasional all-powerful "cheat" game can be entertaining.

	25-03-2003 10:29									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

what is the point of cheating?

multiplayer its not tolerated...
single player, other then seeing funny units like cow catapults or whatever, if its to help you win, its just fooling one self. anyone with some skillz doesnt need it to win against the comp anyways.

	25-03-2003 21:11									#9
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He said the reason he likes it is because it gives him the chance to be way ahead and dominate the competition. Read the first post in the thread for his exact response.

	26-03-2003 05:22									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I read the whole thread before.

You don't need cheats to dominate your opponent if you're good!

If u cheat then they will cheat, and how will you dominate your opponent then? they have the same stuff you will.

You're just basically violating all of the careful design and balance in the game. why not have a cheat that makes u win instantly? too easy? Ok just make it so your stuff cant be destroyed. I dont see how that make a game more fun. Woohoo you're dominating but ya are u really?

Try this, dont need cheats in the built in a game just ask your opponent to step away from the computer while u wack his idle nation. I'm sure that will seem like u're dominating him too.

Last edited by One_Dead_Villy on 26-03-2003 at 05:28

	26-03-2003 05:35									#11
	Got spare money?

cheating isnt all bad, sometimes it just helps u not to get bored

i definately would be using it in multiplayer or any half decent campains

	26-03-2003 07:34									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

if both sides agree to play with cheats thats fine (although rather pointless in my opinion), but the original poster is talking about dominating the opponent which means one side isnt using it, so its not concentual. We're not talking about cheat codes to unlock special graphics or just pure amusement addons they have that doesnt effect gameplay. The question was cheats that offer an unfair advantage over an opppnent in a game. Who wants to play a cheater? I dont. Why not just get trainers and cheat in ways not designed in the game, anyone can just buy a cheat book to know the codes. Either way, It just ruins a game.

If cheats are legit, why dont they allow them in gaming tournaments? If its legit, why dont they just make permanently in the game and u dont need any cheat codes and they wont have to bother balancing the civs, it sure would save development time. Just make a game with ridiculous rules.

Hey I have a scenario I designed that makes it impossible for you to win, and I can thump you, u wanna play with me so I can laugh my ass off at you? Probably not, so why would anyone else wanna play against a cheater.

Last edited by One_Dead_Villy on 26-03-2003 at 08:01

	26-03-2003 08:07									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

One_Dead_Villy, you do realize that I'm talking about playing aganist the computer. Besides, haven't you ever used a cheat to nuke people while still in the stone age or something?

	26-03-2003 12:23									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

it wasnt obvious in your original post, but HuangShang's post which i replyed to he specifically say against multiplayer. People as in multiplayer? No I never used cheats. Like I said I like a challenge. Against a computer? Other then to see the special units like in AOK's its boring for me to actually play cheats against a comp, its already easy enough already.

	26-03-2003 20:22									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Huang sometimes leaves out words, I assume he meant that he would not be using cheats in a half way descent campaign or in MP. Or at least that is how it reads to me.

	27-03-2003 05:19									#16
	Suffering from ads?

how did i miss that

guess i shouldnt rush so much

	27-03-2003 13:28									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

ok, thats better

	27-03-2003 17:41									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Today's New York Times ("free registration required") carries an article by technology reporter Peter Wayner in which he quotes both Brian Reynolds and Tim Train on cheating in online games.

quote: The biggest worry of its [Rise of Nations'] designer, Tim Train, is not so much tricks that let players triple their bankroll with a single click, as ones that reveal hidden information or parts of a map. "We use a simultaneous simulation on each player's machine," he explained. "If your wealth is suddenly increased by 100 times, the other computers notice it and quit."

Thanks to Rise of Morning Calm who posted the link to the article at RoN Center.

	28-03-2003 07:41									#19
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huh? i dont understand what he's talking about

	28-03-2003 07:50									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

i think it means that the state of the world so to speak is calculated by player moves by all computers. so each one knows what the other player has in resources, so if someone cheats and has an extraordinary resource increase, cause of a trainer. The other computers will basically vote him out. Ie) I everyone's got a watch showing the same time, if one suddenly shows a few hours ahead we know that the watch ahead is wrong and is cheating.

	29-03-2003 05:28									#21
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oh, so its just an anit-cheating?
the problem w/ cheating is to try to make people to never do it in the first place so they dont waste everyone's time though

	30-03-2003 00:59									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by HuangShang oh, so its just an anit-cheating? the problem w/ cheating is to try to make people to never do it in the first place so they dont waste everyone's time though

But isnt the way to keep people from cheating to make it so that it doesn't help you, in fact, your punished for it? That is what they are trying to do. They came up with different ways to defeat current cheaters and to knock them out of the game.

	30-03-2003 11:32									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

yeah, that's one of one way to do it in an imperfect socialty, too bad though