16-03-2003 21:38									#1
	Vaccinations And Bio War Put an end to popups!

Since I am one of the people in the middle of this, I thought that I should bring this up.

Do you think that it is right for the military to order that all members receive a vaccine, even if they dont want it?

Now, I'm not going to mention actual vaccines, but I'm sure with the news lately, you can figure tham out.

So, what do you think?

	16-03-2003 22:07									#2
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The authority is absolute - there's no question that it's a "lawful order."

The problem is that if personnel refuse, on any significant scale, and subsequently are exposed during combat operations, they become casualties that could have been avoided, and it's not only the fate of those individuals who made that choice (not a problem, it's their choice) but it's ALSO an impact on combat effectiveness for their unit, and an increased level of risk for other, unavoidable combat casualties, because the number of medical personnel, transport capability, and forward medical facilities are all limited, and their efficiency and effectiveness is diluted by the excess casualties that could have been prevented.

If you class people who refuse vacines as non-deployable, it then has the potential for abuse and becoming the coward's ticket out.

So yes, it's right to give the order.

	16-03-2003 23:33									#3
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Is there anywhere that a civilian can get small pox vaccine?

	16-03-2003 23:35									#4
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the problem is, you are owned by the military

I had all kinds of things shot into me with an air gun. I have no idea what they are.

I also had to get some shot when they thought someone had meningitus. That's a pretty nasty disease though, so I guess better safe than sorry.

	16-03-2003 23:40									#5
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Yeah, Dis - I've had it three times. I'd gladly take a shot to prevent getting it again.

Lancer - why bother?

	17-03-2003 00:01									#6
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It's a deadly disease in the hands of some people I don't trust, or even know.

	17-03-2003 02:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer It's a deadly disease in the hands of some people I don't trust, or even know.

paranoid, lance?

	17-03-2003 03:02									#8
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Hueij, you consider that concern over smallpox is paranoid, that's your business. I hope you're right, believe me. I want to protect my family and myself, that's my business.

Nevermind, I'm not looking for a discussion, I'm looking for innoculations.

	17-03-2003 03:08									#9
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You have a better chance of dying form the vaccine then you do of small pox, if you ask me.

	17-03-2003 03:12									#10
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"if you ask me"

	17-03-2003 03:17									#11
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There's not a shred of evidence that terrorists have smallpox. It'd be stupid of them to use it anyway, since it would be a nuisance to the developed world, but a catastrophe to the developing world (including the Muslim world).

	17-03-2003 03:30									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Is there anywhere that a civilian can get small pox vaccine?

Work on a dairy farm and catch cowpox. I've had it- it's horrible but it's a smallpox vaccine.

	17-03-2003 04:44									#13
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Take the vaccines and quit your blubbering.

	17-03-2003 05:46									#14
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A small number of medical personnel have been given the smallpox vaccine recently. There are plans to eventually innoculate more of them, but I think that they are holding back until the threat level increases, or more vaccine becomes available.

	17-03-2003 06:17									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Osweld You have a better chance of dying form the vaccine then you do of small pox, if you ask me.

Then you're misinformed, or are stating an opinion without knowledge.
That's as diplomatic as I can phrase it.

Small pox is nasty, and in almost all cases, fatal.
When it becomes available, this is one innoculation I will certainly take.

	17-03-2003 07:02									#16
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Small pox is nasty, and in almost all cases, fatal.

I know that. I was refering to the chances of being exposed to it. ie. it being used as a weapon by terrorists.

The vaccine, like all vaccines, has a great number of side effects and can even cause death in some cases. It's not something I would recomend taking out of sheer paranoia.

	17-03-2003 07:07									#17
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I thought a third or half the cases were fatal - it was on a documentary or something.

Just think how much of a killing skin cream companies would make in the aftermath - smallpox plays havoc on your complexion.

	17-03-2003 07:17									#18
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Depends on they type.
"flat and hemorrhagic smallpox usually are fatal"

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/index.asp

I would expect terrorists to try and develop the most lethal.
Still, the non-lethal form wouldn't be very desireable.

	17-03-2003 07:21									#19
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Ah. I can't remember which channel it was on, but there was a really good fake-documentary over here last year, set slightly in the future after a global smallpox disaster, going over the events.

It was scarily real.

	17-03-2003 07:55									#20
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You have misinterpreted the article. It clearly states that smallpox does have a 30% fatality rate, including people who develop the flat and haemorrhagic forms of the disease.

	17-03-2003 19:01									#21
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My wife, myself and my father in law all had the vaccine as children w/ no side effects. I believe that means we won't have any if we have it again.

	17-03-2003 19:25									#22
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I had the vaccination as a child. Nothing to it.

	17-03-2003 19:30									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman You have misinterpreted the article. It clearly states that smallpox does have a 30% fatality rate, including people who develop the flat and haemorrhagic forms of the disease.

Pardon me?


"Historically, variola major has an overall fatality rate of about 30%; however, flat and hemorrhagic smallpox usually are fatal."

	17-03-2003 19:30									#24
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Sloww, are you so ancient? I figured you were in your 20s?

I'm 44 btw.

	17-03-2003 19:34									#25
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I had the vaccination as a child. Nothing to it.

Side effects can be very subtle and long lasting. Those vacinations could even be the reason why you are so mule headed today.

	17-03-2003 19:35									#26
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Here's a link that has good basic knowledge about smallpox. I scanned it quickly and the info is similar to what we give out during seminars to physicians here in the department of Infectious Disease.

	17-03-2003 19:37									#27
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The whole vaccination thing is a two edged sword. There is an interesting story on the BBC website from last month claiming health workers in the US are so busy vaccinating people they would not notice an outbreak start and miss the opportunity to deal with it in the early stages.

More worryingly I picked up a story on the BBC this morning (no link as it hasn't reached their website yet) that the anthrax vaccine for British troops contains an impurity (squalene or something like that?) which is linked to other diseases including Lupus. No wonder half the troops in the Gulf are claimed to have refused it.

	17-03-2003 19:40									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Sloww, are you so ancient? I figured you were in your 20s? I'm 44 btw.

My mother keeps insisting that I'm 47.
Total b.s.


Tell you what.
You don't want a vaccination, don't get one.
Thin the herd a little.

	17-03-2003 19:44									#29
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Old fart

	17-03-2003 19:47									#30
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I have underwear older than some of these pups.