17-03-2003 05:17									#1
	Is This A Bug???? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Took a long brake from Civ but decided to buy PTW after hearing about this last patch.

Started up a solo game of regicide with the "double production" option turned on.

No oddities during the game until I had researched the tech need for modern armor, but could not find any aluminum ANYWHERE ON THE WORLD. According to the manual, this should appear on the map when rocketry is discovered, which I had.

The same thing happened with uranium. I ended up winning the game anyway and explored every single damn tile, and there was not one aluminum or uranium resource in existence, which really made a mockery of my plans and was very frustrating.

So is there some intricacy that I'm not aware of, like certain resources don't appear until a certain date, regardless of which techs have been discovered? Or is this a known bug?

	17-03-2003 05:45									#2
	Remove this text

Wow, none anywhere? Did you check with the other Civs? If a city is on top of the resource, the symbol won't appear. You have to right click on the tile and peek at the terrain.

Incidentally, by what method did you win? Without aluminum, Spaceship victory is right out.

- TT

	17-03-2003 06:11									#3
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To see Aluminum, ROCKETRY must be researched. I made the mistake once of beelining for Modern Armor (Synthetic Fibers), and almost went out of my mind looking for Aluminum when I didn't have Rocketry.

	17-03-2003 06:33									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

I won by eliminating all the other Civs, I was way ahead in research, so I had tanks long before they did.

Not only did I have Rocketry researched, I thought to myself that maybe aluminum won't show up in another Civ's territory until they research Rocketry. So I traded them all the techs up to and including Rocketry but still no aluminum.

I didn't look at the terrain below their cities. Never thought of that! But I had three oils, two rubbers, three iron deposits in my territory alone. So what are the odds of all the aluminum and uranium resources only occurring under a enemy city???

They only thing I could think of, is because I did have that "double production" option checked, I achieved the high techs much earlier than usual. So I wondered if certain resources only show up past a certain date regardless of your tech level.

So if this is a bug, how common is it? I'd hate to play 10-20 hours in a multiplayer game, only to discover my plans for world conquest are screwed because key resources just never appear!

	17-03-2003 06:50									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Ctrl-Shift-M ("Clear Terrain") to see the underlying terrain.
BTW, you can adjust Clear Terrain so that you see civ borders.

	17-03-2003 17:31									#6
	Tired of ads?

Ctrl-shift-m is a must when looking for resources. There are some graphical mods that enhance the visibilty of resources but they were more important in plain civ3. You can also use a spy to see if any AI city has acces to any given resource.

I have never seen a total absence of a resource but I have seen many times that there are only one or two of them.

Remember that the AI will know in advance where resources will appear and often build cities on top of future resources. I see this in all my games.

	17-03-2003 18:28									#7
	Put an end to popups!

It's not a bug...it's a feature, dammit!

	18-03-2003 03:44									#9
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I had to wait until I got home from work to try the ctrl-shift-m.

I did find one uranium that I missed, little green icon on a green background.

But there is ZERO aluminum on the entire map. I even checked the arctic regions.

	18-03-2003 04:42									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Tyr, did you Start New Game or Load Scenario? If a scenario, you might check in the Editor to see if Aluminum's appearance ratio was askew.

	18-03-2003 05:13									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Tyr, did you Start New Game or Load Scenario? If a scenario, you might check in the Editor to see if Aluminum's appearance ratio was askew.

It's a scenario I made, but not with a custom map. The only edits to the rules where lowering AI tech trading, and increasing the number of civs from 4 on a tiny map to 8.

I didn't mess with the resource options at all. But I'll double check that when I get off work.

	18-03-2003 05:23									#12
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Aluminum normally has an appearance factor of 120.

	18-03-2003 05:40									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Well, since you have won (by elimination)...I guess aluminum wasn't very important to your scenario.

	18-03-2003 06:47									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Though, Uranium might have been.

	18-03-2003 08:05									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Tyr I did find one uranium that I missed, little green icon on a green background.

You might consider one of the many resource graphic mods in the directory. I happen to prefer Skanky Burns' mod (click Skanky Burns' Resource Labels) which places a small label next to all srategic resources and a small happy face next to all luxury resources -- makes it a heckuva lot easier to find that coal in mountains and saltpeter in desert. There are many others in the directory as well.

Catt

	18-03-2003 08:33									#16
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Thanks Catt, I'll definitely check that out. But I know I'm not just overlooking aluminum, as that trashcan is pretty hard to miss.

What's really bothering me is that this was a test run for a multiplayer game with me and a few friends. I'd hate to research tanks first, hold off on the attack until I get modern armor, only to find I can't build any because there isn't any aluminum in the entire world, and now all my human opponents also have tanks.

The last thing I want is a fair fight!

	18-03-2003 08:55									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Don't worry, next time it'll be OIL you can't find!

	19-03-2003 06:21									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe Aluminum normally has an appearance factor of 120.

Finally escaped from work long enough to check. It is set at 120. And there are plenty of hills without resouces on them, so the game didn't run out of terrian to place the resources on.

So I guess this makes this a bug. Guess I bought this game one patch to early.

	19-03-2003 06:24									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Tyr,

Can you post a save game for us to check out?

- TT

	19-03-2003 08:11									#20
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I'd be glad too. And if someone can prove I'm wrong I'll let them have sex with my girlfriend.

I'll post it Wednesday afternoon as I'm stuck at work again.

	19-03-2003 22:15									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Tyr I'd be glad too. And if someone can prove I'm wrong I'll let them have sex with my girlfriend.

That's a little presumptious. What does she say about that?

And what if I prove you wrong (as I am not on the same team as you)?

	19-03-2003 22:52									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

You never miss an opening, do you Boris?

On a serious note, I too would like to check out Tyr's save.

	20-03-2003 01:17									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'll refrain from any jokes about openings.

	20-03-2003 06:38									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Actually, she's does phonesex and live webcam shows for a living, so they least I could do i throw in a free show.

Here's the game. At this point, all 7 other civs have been destroyed. Very interested in what anyone finds out.

Attachment: hannibal of the carthaginians, 1844 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	20-03-2003 08:49									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, you are absolutely right Tyr - There is not one piece of aluminum to be had on your map.

My question is: Why does the game continue? All of the opponents are eliminated, and I have hunted down all the barbarians - but the foreign advisor states "make more friends," which would be fine if there were more friends to be met.

EDIT: Did you get the victory notification pop-up, but continued to play prior to this save? This would explain why the game continues on for no reason...

	20-03-2003 10:46									#26
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Hi Wittlich,

Your hunch is correct. I had already won the game, then continued to play trying to find the damn aluminum.

And yes, I wipe everyone else off the face of the earth, then my genius foreign adviser says "we should make new friends" - which was so rich in irony.

I'm also uploading the custom rules in case this helps someone figure this out.

Attachment: aaacustom.zip
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	20-03-2003 13:52									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The lack of aluminium isn't a bug - just as a spearman beating a tank isn't a bug. Both are the result of rare numbers generated by the random number generator.

The Aluminium's appearance factor just say how many sources than normally gets created, but the RNG makes sure that sometimes you get less, sometimes more and once in a while you get none.

Similarily, I have played several games where one or more luxury types fail to show up.

	20-03-2003 19:53									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I forget--if a resource disappears due to being exhausted, will it always be replaced somewhere else on the map, or is it possible for them to vanish totally?

	21-03-2003 00:15									#29
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It should reappear, according to either the manual or the readme.txt (i forget which). But manual and readme not always correct.

Post above about random numbers sounds right. i played one game with only one coal resource. Didn't even consider it a bug--thought it was due to randomness.

	23-03-2003 04:14									#30
	Suffering from ads?

This doesn't seem right to me. First, having random locations (with terrain restrictions) is more important to replayablity. I can see a random factor to the number of strategic resources, but only if the minimum was set at one.

Otherwise, say the goal of my game is to be the first to colonize Alpha Centaury. I could spend 10-30 hours playing the game, only to find out that my goal is unachievable regardless of my skill. If that's not a bug, it sure as hell is a design flaw.