17-03-2003 18:23									#1
	AI council votes Suffering from ads?

We all know that AI is very weak in many aspects of the game. We live with that as there is not much we could do. But the sheer stupidity in the council votes of tha AI pisses me off. E.g. I'm playing on a 256x256 map that is 90% ocean - there are only small islands isolated with lots of water - most of which is too deep to be of any use. The Drones (AI) calls council to Melt the polar caps as soon as they get the tech for it - what an idiot. Then ALL other idiot AI factions vote YEA - then in 20 turns I'm the only one who survives the action without loss of any base and a bit bigger land than before due to massive land raising effort. All AI factions lose 2-3 bases (many others bases manage to build pressure dome and become under-productive sea bases), lots of terraformed tiles, including the idiot Drones. Can anybody explain to me the rationale behind this attitude ??? I can't think of any reason why would all AI factions vote YEA for the proposal that would most likely destroy themselves...
Of course, when I propose Global trade pact or salvaging the Unity fusion core, they all vote NAY - they don't like to help themselvs but they are very happy to do some serious self-punishment. I bet if there was a "mazohcism" SE choice all AI factions would run that all the time.

	17-03-2003 18:55									#2
	Got spare money?

I think the AI judges the "usefullness" of the proposed item to you: the +500 credits are a nice boost to your treasury in general if it is relatively low, thus making this item more often than not a NAY (as it is very useful to you). This also counts for trade pacts (especially in my case, I play Hybrid style while keeping peaceful relations most of the time), so when I call the council proposing a trade pact, 90% of the time the AI votes NAY.
I think if you are already swimming in energy credits and then call the vote for the fusion core salvage operation. The 500 credits won't matter that much to your treasury, making the AI more eligible to opt YEA.

(compare to the "revoke charter" option. If you have Planet Busters and the AI not, they won't vote to abolish the charter as it would be more useful to you than to them)

This is from my experience however, so I cannot tell if this happens to everybody, but it is sort of an explanation to your question.

	17-03-2003 18:56									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, that appears to be the most effective way in which that AIs can at least annoy you as a player, if they can't effectively oppose you!
I think that's an intended ploy. It's a "feature"!!!!

Play PBEM!

	17-03-2003 19:34									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Of course, I get the picture about the 500 credit and global trade pact being balanced on "opposition" effect. But the polar caps I still can't make sense of. It doesn't hurt me much - just some wasted terraforming time I could have used better, but it practically kills all AI factions especially on this water-world.

	17-03-2003 20:09									#5
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It's just that the AI can't FIGURE in the first place that you KNOW some way to escape searising relatively unhurt....

	17-03-2003 20:12									#6
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by zsozso Of course, I get the picture about the 500 credit and global trade pact being balanced on "opposition" effect. But the polar caps I still can't make sense of. It doesn't hurt me much - just some wasted terraforming time I could have used better, but it practically kills all AI factions especially on this water-world.

Since the AI doesn't seem to understand much about raising/lowering terrain, this probably seems like a good idea to them.

Perhaps they think they're taking you down with them.

	18-03-2003 00:30									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

In a game im currently playing all AI are pacted and then theres me as the opposition, since i'd effectively destroyed all of their military with choppers but want to try to get into a satellite/PB war with them i used the editor and changed their status with me to truce.
A few turns after this Lal along with Cult declare war on me.
I beat the cult into submissive and then Lal decided to call elections, this is the weird part :
All AI factions includcing Lal voted for me (Yang) ?! I think it was maybe to do with Cult being submissive but was still quite funny since its the first time i've had a unanimous vote

Btw the AI usually asks for 2000 ec to vote Yea to salvage the unity core when i propose it so i just enslave them all first

	18-03-2003 18:13									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Lazerus, if you want high-tech war, e.g. satellites, then try to play on 256x256 map with 90% water. Clearing everybody out by choppers is simply not feasible on this size, because you can't reach them unless you plant like 10+ sea colonies spaced 12 tiles apart in their direction in a straight line, but that takes a lot of time. To increase the fun, play it in faction-switching challenge style, i.e. switch to the weakest faction after 50 turns, then switch again when your new faction becomes number 1 on the power bar. After 3-4 switches, you have 3-4 well built strong opponents all ready to pump out satellites.

	19-03-2003 00:52									#9
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

They never do build sats though i've given the AI all the techs needed, used the editor to give them plenty of condensors and boreholes so their energy from being all pacted and such is through the roof yet they just keep building useless infantry urgh ! and this was when im on a seperate continent to them all.

Guess i might aswell take control and build their sats myself now.

	19-03-2003 02:27									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree with zsozso that the AI will build satellites if they are left in an isolated position, as I have seen this in many games.

In most of my games, I use heavily forest-seeded Ringworld* style maps (320x32), where it is extremely difficult for the AIs to mount serious campaigns against each other. They tend to heavily focus instead on building up infrastructure.

When not confronted with another faction right next door, they tend not to overproduce military units. I have engaged in a few satellite wars with the AI under these conditions.

Once the AI jumped so far ahead in a double blind research game that they were actually producing satellites before I'd even gotten to Doctrine: Air Power.

I was not using crawlers in this game, and getting the message that the AI just launched a satellite is probably the biggest shock the game ever gave me.

This style of play really suits my builder style, but the drawback is if another faction starts to pull ahead, there's nothing you can do about it. But that's the fun part.


*Term from Larry Niven sci-fi novel.

	19-03-2003 04:04									#11
	Remove this text

Ringworld, I like that idea, can't wait to try it. As a builder I have tried extra large maps to buy time but have never tried something like you suggest. Anything else for the setup that you think makes it fun to play with?

	19-03-2003 16:33									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Kaptain Ken Ringworld, I like that idea, can't wait to try it.

I think I should point out that I swiped the idea for these maps from someone, although I can't remember who or where. I'm pretty sure I didn't see it here on Poly, but possibly in the Alpha Centauri newsgroup. Whoever you are, thanks!

quote: As a builder I have tried extra large maps to buy time but have never tried something like you suggest.

I tried the extra large maps but they caused too much of a slowdown on my computer. I like the distances, but not all the area of the large maps, so the Ringworld style is a good compromise for me.

quote: Anything else for the setup that you think makes it fun to play with?

Usually I custom generate a map in the scenario editor, using width somewhere between 280 and 320, height between 28 and 32.

I set native lifeforms to the lowest setting, land/sea ratio to the middle option and the other settings I try to pick at random to add variance. Apply polar caps.

If I don't get enough distinct continents I keep generating until I get a map I like. Usually I prefer land masses that stretch from top to bottom, with maybe a narrow channel for sea vessels. I adjust terrain to met these conditions.

Liberally sprinkle with forests.

I need to create a new one, so I'll post it here when I finish.

Unfortunately, I never thought I'd be sharing them, so I always saved the new one over the old one to save disk space.

	19-03-2003 18:20									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Static23,

Thanks for the info. Can't play until the weekend due to travel, but look forward to trying this out. If you can post a map I will play it, otherwise I'll attempt to make one as suggested.
I am an old civer that's been around for years but has only recently registered. I play SMAX or Moo2 as a break from Civ2. I really enjoy useing custom factions in SMAX. Thanks.