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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
we are to remain an elite superpower or hyperpower, we cannot surrender diplomatically to nations like Iraq. Iraq has beaten us diplomatically. They have outsmarted us.
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Which is a sad thing, considering the fact that Saddam Hussein has little friends in the world and the USA had a more or less working broad alliance before this conflict arising. More than that you DID surrender diplomatically to Iraq by withdrawing any effort to get UN support.
quote:
What anti-war protestors don't realize, is we can't always do the right thing. Our country has very little manufacturing. Our economy is based on service industries and telecommunications and such. It is very fragile. If we fall from grace we will be little better than Mexico. Canada would the the leading country of the americas. The standard of living would be horrible. The standard of living is already so bad in inner cities. I'd hate to see it worse. And no, socialism would not work on a nation this large. I beleive socialism can work on smaller nations. But on large nations such as Russia, and the U.S., it has problems. |
Well, this is pure Macchiavellianism. I absolutely do understand and do realize like most people outside the US, that the American foreign policy is aming only to hold up the status quo and secure the economic and political domination of the US. Lamentably, many Americans seemingly either don't understand or they're cynical bastards like dissident. (I wouldn't use this terminology, but as dissident even admits himself that he is evil...)
We tend to despise criminals who seek to get an unjust advantage to the rest of society by, say, commiting a murder, but we rationally discuss it when nations come into play. What if someone here at Poly came here and said: "My father is just going to kill the family of a troublesome rowdy and rob their poor belongings and I'm fine with it because that's the only way we can keep our standard of living."
We would be shocked, SHOCKED and people would write petitions to MarkG to ban dissident.
Yet, because we're talking about nations, we don't do it - it's a valid stance. We are all cold blooded.
Thank you, dissident, for telling us. You are really an evil person and a murderer in my eyes, and you're at honestly sharing it with us. Which doesn't make you better though.
quote:
There is no way to justify that.
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Yes, that's how it is and it simply shows that you have no moral, and contrary to others here, I don't think your point of view is "Interesting".
You're a criminal and a cynic, you want to hold the rest of the world in poverty so the US can prosper. It's the exact way, most people in US foreign politics since 1945 have pursued. Installing dictatorships to everywhere to hold back Communism, breaking democratic movements against exploitation in Latin America, supporting extremist muslims in many countries, including Afghanistan and Iran, so commies wouldn't gain power there,
sending WOMD to Saddam in the 80s, the Taliban in the 90s.
Let the whole world blood dry, so US can keep their hegemony.
Now if someone thinks, that's all bad-as$ leftist propaganda, he's a poor sod, and I will continue to spend my little time to persuade him that he's wrong - he might not be a bad person, just someone who doesn't understand.
Or let's say I'm wrong and it IS only propaganda and it has all been done for the sake of humanity and democracy. Even then, dissident would remain a sick bastard, because of doing it out of cynical motives.
I'm against the Iraq war, yet I still hate Chirac, because his anti-war stance has also only cynical motivations.
We're sick, if we think it's "interesting" that dissident believes holding up the US dominance alone should be worth a mass-murder - for he himself calls the war "injust". Dissident has understood it, so it's interesting that he shares his thoughts with us, yet his opinion is not interesting, but only sick.
I'm the last one who would argue that it's possible to act 100% morally in order to move along or to reach a good goal, but the goal must be worth it (what actually makes me partially a Macchiavellian). Democracy might be, human rights might be, but US dominance is not. 
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HershOstropoler
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"If we do let Iraq win, other nations will then take it a step further."
Oh, North Korea is running ahead of schedule?
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Wernazuma III
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Decolonize!
Aug 2000
time: 06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by South killer
I totally agree with Wernazuma III 
No. The fact that you are supporting a bloodly war with no reason is what makes you a murderer. American society is sick. You are just admiting it. Perhaps you agree with the war because you, as an american, has never seen real death on the streets, you haven't seen your country destroyed by dictatorships implanted by the USA, You haven't seen your country's resources being stolen by foreing corporations, You haven't seen the children dying of hunger in the streets while a fat bussinessman is tossing tons of good food to the garbage. You'll probably now turn on your T.V. and watch a funny serie in sony entretainment television and enjoy the ''american way of life'' while in countries on africa, on Irak,and in many other places people are dying and paying with their bloods so that you can enjoy your american way of life. |
The bad thing is that dissident also thinks that this is how the world runs and still is OK with it. I understand better those who turn on the TV, see it, don't really think about it and go on with their lives...
quote:
By admitting that you want war and innocent people to die just reinforces the anti-americanism i feel in my heart. |
That's where I disagree. There's a lot of Americans who have understood and don't agree with it and there is a huge mass of Americans who seemingly really think this is about human rights and democracy - they happen to be pro-war out of a wish to do the right thing, not out of selfishness.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
I'm what you call a darwinist. I believe in survival of the fittest above all else.
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Dissident, I would not call you a Darwinist. I would call you a Nazi.
Last edited by Ned on 18-03-2003 at 02:06
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South killer
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quote:
That's where I disagree. There's a lot of Americans who have understood and don't agree with it and there is a huge mass of Americans who seemingly really think this is about human rights and democracy - they happen to be pro-war out of a wish to do the right thing, not out of selfishness. |
perhaps I was a bit hateful. I know there are lots of americans that are against the war and most of americans are just confused. I'm not against all american people (just against people that think like dissident)but against the american administration and american culture. Your country has done terrible thinks throught its history, implanting dictatorships, organizing wars, intervending (sp?) in other countries issues with the excuse of ''helping'' but only helping themselves.
So perhaps you must rethink your role in the world and not continue doing what you have done so far, because with american leadership, humanity is going backwards and backwards.
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:26
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I'll have to rethink this legal issue.
But how can you say this is not how the world works?
What I want to know is how you guys would solve this situaiton. Is there any way to disarm Iraq without forcing him to? I don't see it.
With all the thinkers in the world, surely they would have thought of some way to disarm Iraq.
P.S. To clarify by what I mean by winning. A victory for the U.S. would be disarming Iraq. But I refuse to lose on this issue. we cannot let Iraq manipulate their way out of this. All I really want is the disarmament of Iraq. That will be a U.S. victory just as good as conquering them, and will ensure U.S. political dominance.
Last edited by Dis on 18-03-2003 at 02:02
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
I'm what you call a darwinist. I believe in survival of the fittest above all else. |
I'd call you a realist
But isn't transending our baser instincts what civilization's goals are about, or is it owning digital watches and SUVs?
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18-03-2003 00:44
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