17-03-2003 23:04									#1
	Necessary Evil Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Please do not close this thread. This is not an Iraq thread specifically. This deals with war in general. And this is the first thread I have created about the subject. I do not create Iraq threads if you have noticed.

All War is Evil

So don't give me the excuse that this war is unjust. All war is unjust. And this includes WW2. Organized killing is wrong no matter how you see it. It has nothing to do with civilian deaths. Do you think it is right to kill all those military personnel who are not responsible for the war?

Killing military is no better than killing civilians

There I said it. The anti-war people want to protect the civilians. What about the miltary? They have done nothing wrong. Many of them are forced into that job, they are not volunteers.

Now you understand why war is inherantly evil, I will explain why some are necessary.

If our goal as a nation is to become a third war nation, then we should not go to war. We could live peacefully as a third world nation I'm sure. And believe me, we would be a third world nation. Americans are not very smart. In SMAC terms, we have a lot of drones.

Iraq poses no direct threat to the U.S.

There I said it. And I believe it. Yet I still believe this war is necessary. If we are to remain an elite superpower or hyperpower, we cannot surrender diplomatically to nations like Iraq. Iraq has beaten us diplomatically. They have outsmarted us. Saddam has done just enough to make him look like he's trying to follow the regulations. And I also believe it is highly unlikely they have any nuclear program whatsoever. And I doubt they have ever or will ever sold/sell biological/chemical weapons to terrorists. And the war isn't really about oil either because the oil wells will be blown up and those fields will not be available for a long time.

This is a matter of the U.S. losing to a nation like Iraq. We already lost diplomatically to Vietnam. If we are to remain the world's #1 nation, we have to flex our power.

What anti-war protestors don't realize, is we can't always do the right thing. Our country has very little manufacturing. Our economy is based on service industries and telecommunications and such. It is very fragile. If we fall from grace we will be little better than Mexico. Canada would the the leading country of the americas. The standard of living would be horrible. The standard of living is already so bad in inner cities. I'd hate to see it worse. And no, socialism would not work on a nation this large. I beleive socialism can work on smaller nations. But on large nations such as Russia, and the U.S., it has problems.

Because I support this war- this makes me evil. I have come to terms with that. I realize I'm an evil person. I am essentually supporting the deaths if Iraqi people (notice how I do not distinguish military and civilians), and the American/British people. There is no way to justify that.

Assassination is probably a better option. But for some reason that is not legal, and that is not an avenue that we can pursue.

This war is a necessary evil if we are to remain a superpower and not an impotent nation with a military we cannot use. Having a miltary is worthless if you cannot use it. When you are #1, people will continue to push you off the top. We have to be able to prevent that.

	17-03-2003 23:07									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

You run a different line of logic, but you get to the same end as I do... Kudos

	17-03-2003 23:08									#3
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In America, you have a right to your opinion.
Paid for, in war.

	17-03-2003 23:24									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand In America, you have a right to your opinion. Paid for, in war.

So war must great, huh?

	17-03-2003 23:36									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

****ing stupid trolling, Tassadar.

I guess that the "Oteychestvenaya Voiyna" was wrong too.

And mind you, I am myself undecided about the war.

	17-03-2003 23:36									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Dissident, your reasoning is excellent -- as Tassadar just proved.

	17-03-2003 23:46									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

That's right. The US has landed itself in quicksand and is wiggling itself deeper in so as to hide the fact that it didn't mean to land in quicksand in the first place. Congratulations.

	17-03-2003 23:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The fact is, nobody with a grain of sense likes war.
I don't like going to the dentist either, but sometimes it's necessary.

	17-03-2003 23:52									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand The fact is, nobody with a grain of sense likes war. I don't like going to the dentist either, but sometimes it's necessary.

Not if you take care of your teeth in the first place.

	17-03-2003 23:54									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Osweld Not if you take care of your teeth in the first place.

"Jaw jaw is better than war war."

Winston S. Churchill

	17-03-2003 23:56									#11
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Azazel ****ing stupid trolling, Tassadar.

All trolls are stupid, but if they can get people to respond....They are sucessful

Edit: I just realized my troll was much better than I gave it credit for!!

	17-03-2003 23:58									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

quicksand?

Bush has been planning this for a long time.

Anyone remember his comments 1 year ago? This was long before the push last Fall.

I knew it was coming. So you guys should have seen it coming.

He's not over his head. He knew exactly what he was doing when he got involved last fall.

Whether he succeeds or not remains to be seen.

	17-03-2003 23:59									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

and sometimes even when you do take care of your teeth you still have to go to the dentist.

How's that analogy?

	18-03-2003 00:00									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Unorthodox view, but interesting.

"Our country has very little manufacturing. Our economy is based on service industries and telecommunications and such. It is very fragile."

Yes, but militarism and warmongering only undermine it further.

	18-03-2003 00:01									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Fits perfectly about paying a call on Mr. Hussein. Thanks.

"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room." another Churchill

Somehow, it fits.

	18-03-2003 00:01									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

How about: You shouldn't use a sledge hammer to remove a sore tooth. It's better to fill in the cavity and carry on.

	18-03-2003 00:02									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Osweld How about : You shouldn't use a sledge hammer to remove a sore tooth. It's better to fill in the cavity and carry on.

Your avatar is highly erotic.

Ooh la la!!!

	18-03-2003 00:07									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

well the war won't help the economy for sure.

Although if the oil fields are intact and prices drop to close to $10 a barrel that will help . But I'm not counting on that.

This is for long term stability of the U.S. It won't do a whole lot for the economy, and will make it worse for the short term.

	18-03-2003 00:09									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I also believe this will be the last Republican president we have in a long time.

I want people to remember how we use force to ensure we stay on top. It isn't right. But if we want to stay on top it is necessary.

So when things go wrong in 2 years under democratic leadership, and they have a weak response. I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

	18-03-2003 00:11									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

How about, "Why are Brits and Americans The Biggest Whiners?" .
I include Canada, even though they're like the butt-ugly red-headed stepchild.

Can't be education.
People come to America to learn Law, Medicine, even how to fly passenger planes.

Must be, educated to the point of stupid.

	18-03-2003 00:13									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

Yes. Its unfortunate that some people haven't evolved to the point where they can use more peaceful methods to ensure dominance. Because in fact, it would acutally ensure dominence better because a superpower needs allies to survive.

Oh well, many years from now we can talk about how those redneck republicans missed out on human evolution, and eventually all died out

	18-03-2003 00:14									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Bush has been planning this for a long time.

Anyone remember his comments 1 year ago? This was long before the push last Fall.

He wasn't planning this in 2000 though, right? If he was, he lied in his campaign.

So when things go wrong in 2 years under democratic leadership, and they have a weak response. I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

Kosovo weak?

	18-03-2003 00:17									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What Bush said, following 9-11, was wherever they're found.
That, on top of Hussein's blatant refusal to follow outlined resolution.

	18-03-2003 00:19									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I also believe this will be the last Republican president we have in a long time. I want people to remember how we use force to ensure we stay on top. It isn't right. But if we want to stay on top it is necessary. So when things go wrong in 2 years under democratic leadership, and they have a weak response. I want the average american to remember how republican use force to ensure dominance.

I don't know -- people thought Nixon / Ford would be the last Republican presence in the Oval Office for a long time, and it took only four years of Carter to convince them othewise.

	18-03-2003 00:19									#25
	Put an end to popups!

what I really wanted to illustrate is how people think military lives have less value than civilians.

People thought this war would be OK if we don't kill civilians. That is not right. Those Iraqis are forced to fight in some cases.

I'm also thinking about making a thread titled: Why are children's lives more important than an adult's? Should I make a seperate thread or discuss it here?

P.S. There is no peaceful way to ensure dominace. That should be obvious. Eventually countries will "test" you. To see if you belong at the top.

P.P.S. Good point about Carter. It shows how we cannot tolerate weak presidents whether they be democrats or republicans. Carters military response to Iran was weak. If we were going to use force, we should have took it a step further. That plan required too many things to go right for it to work.

Last edited by Dis on 18-03-2003 at 00:24

	18-03-2003 00:21									#26
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The Bushies wanted this war from the beginning, they just lacked a proper pretext.

As for last Republican - you're hopelessly underestimating the Democrats' ability to **** up.

	18-03-2003 00:22									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Kosovo didn't have U.N. support, did it?

I actually don't think Clinton was a weak president. He did a good job. And I was a liberal back then. I thought Clinton was god . well not quite.

But aside from Lieberman, I don't see any decent democrats out there. They are all crap.

	18-03-2003 00:32									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The only thing is, you can't have sex with your employees.
Bad choice of booty.

	18-03-2003 00:36									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

yes, if you are going to break rules like that. It may as well be with a really hot chick ala JFK.

	18-03-2003 00:40									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

just listening to Lieberman now on TV

This guy is pretty cool.

He should have ran for pres. Not Gore.