18-03-2003 07:22									#61
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amen virto. Kind of sick of them also. Suprised there isnt a cure yet.

	18-03-2003 07:27									#62
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Oh, how I missed having FG around.

	18-03-2003 07:55									#64
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Consider this. You ignore the sign, no one will pay attention, since this is just part of everyday life. Blow up the sign, and you will attract massive attention to the Christian message, and way more publicity than this would have gotten otherwise.

By ignoring the sign, you condone its existence. The fact that such idiocy is not acceptable needs to be pounded into the tiny sauropod brains of the nutjobs in question.

	18-03-2003 08:08									#65
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quote: By ignoring the sign, you condone its existence. The fact that such idiocy is not acceptable needs to be pounded into the tiny sauropod brains of the nutjobs in question.

Let's make a toast!
A crusade in the name of tolerance.

	18-03-2003 08:25									#66
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quote: i'm hashing out a theory that Satan is the good one, and because God was victorious, and inspired the bible, he wrote himself as the good one. whens the last time you heard of satan rising up and raining sulphur on a village?

But Satan did seem to delight in the pain he inflicted on Job just to prove a point to God, so neither are what I'd consider worthy of worship, but both might be fun at a kegger.

	18-03-2003 08:27									#67
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Its not whether God wrote the Bible, its whether He inspired the people who wrote the Bible

inspired?? oh boy, If you asked me to write an alternative religion I could to it right away with all I've read of other religious literature etc I would have no problem with it...


You do know that most stories in the bible are just remakes of pagan myths and stories...

for example christmas is the summer (winter?? eh lol) solstice in ancient Celt religion... many things were just ripped off other religions.. how ther hell can you then speak of inspiration!!! It is the people who wrote the bible that decided what was right and wrong, just like the pope nowadays....


Don't give me that bullshit that the pope gets all his inspiration from GoD, the pope just does what his conservative mindy wants, such as refusing abortion , the silly fool!!! Don't ever belive ppol that say they got a calling frmo God to become a priest or whatever... it's simply their own feeble minds that are saying they should become priest, not a God or anythingd elise ..


ok im copmepletely drunk now so plz don'y blame me for the silly bollox here :d:dd:

	18-03-2003 09:50									#68
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obiwan:

How would it be that I would not be tolerating the sign by pointing out that it could cause potential harm. Toleration has nothing to do with preventing harm, especialy if I was in that community and was gay. Either of which is not true, but if I fear for my safety then I will not tolerate it. If the baptist are fearful for their safety because of gays then they are in the right, but segregating some one purley because they are gay by no means represents tolerance, nor does the intervention of them when they wish harm represents the lack of tolerance. It represents smarts, and concern for the inocent. Inocent not in the ideas of "their god" but in the eyes of the more moral law of the land.

I would tolerate them saying or putting up a sign that says "Gay Ppl are SInners in the Eyes of God", even though I feel otherwise, but to say something that says "SInners should die!" is just not going to cut it with me.

Note: I once walked out of my wives church because a guest preacher said, "if you do not accept Jesus as your God almighty you will burn hell."

The real preacher apologized to me, is cool with me and my gay friends, and married us. He is really cool, and would never fo that. That preacher has never spoken there before, and while I am not religious I still consult with the Pastor from time to time on life changing events.

	18-03-2003 10:09									#69
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Japher:

quote: "Sinners should die!" is just not going to cut it with me.

Where does the Baptist church in question say that we should kill sinners?

"if you do not accept Jesus as your God almighty you will burn hell."

Aaah. Now I think I see the confusion.

Have you read the parable of the weeds?

Matthew 13:24-30.

Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.

"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "


As Christians, we are not to judge ourselves, but to leave judgement to God because we might pull some wheat up with the weeds.

However, we are also called upon to warn unbelievers of the consequences for rejecting Christ. One of these consequences will be the judgment of God.

	18-03-2003 10:22									#70
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"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. "
Matthew 6:5-6

I think this passage is applicable in this case. The sign in front of that church is the embodiment of loud-mouthed evangelism, which Christ certainly didn't seem too interested in.

	18-03-2003 10:25									#71
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thanks cinc.

The sign also does not say to leave it to the hands of God, but into your own, by not tolerating them.

Yes maybe saying they should all die is a little over the top, but if this is in Alabama that might as well be what they are saying.

	18-03-2003 10:33									#72
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by the way: I think I am may be the only self proclaime diest that has actually read the bible, the book of mormon, and karan. As well as many other books covering the conversations of religious differences.

So, next time you can just leave the passage instead of supplying your own translation of the text... Luther

	18-03-2003 10:34									#73
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Boris are you cruising Bally Total Fitness again?!

	18-03-2003 10:35									#74
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quote: I think this passage is applicable in this case. The sign in front of that church is the embodiment of loud-mouthed evangelism, which Christ certainly didn't seem too interested in.

cinch:

I'm not so sure. This passage refers to personal prayer. You do not need to pray in front of everyone else to pray to God, he can hear you regardless. The problem Christ has is with people who pray in front of everyone just for the praise of men and not the praise of God.

There are many ways to evangelise, some are more effective then others. One of the more effective is to wait for people to come, and then try to answer their questions. This only works if they feel they can come to you for help.

Who is the target for the Baptist's message? The community or the congregation? It seems to me that the target is the congregation, and not the community, and therefore the intent is not to evangelise.

Japher:

Then speak with the pastor in charge. Tell him you fear people taking your interpretation and tell him exactly what you have told me. In all likelihood, they will change the message if they fear people are having the wrong impression.

	18-03-2003 10:39									#75
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Japher:

quote: So, next time you can just leave the passage instead of supplying your own translation of the text...

Directed at both of us?

If it's not helpful what I say, then stick to the passage. If what I say makes sense, then more power to you.

	18-03-2003 10:50									#76
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quote: Directed at both of us?

Correct. I apologize for ever quoting a bible verse, it will never happen again. Yet, just leave the verse, translations of the text have many meanings. Obviously, sense you do not seem to side with the advicators of this sign... as petty as it is.

Obiwan: I admire your tact. Note, however, that some see "servant" as slave, and that the inability for the slave (or ingrate) to remove the weed from the wheat leads to their justification to irradicate the probelm themselves. This is THE problem with bible... interpretation. I see what you mean, and I do apologize.

	18-03-2003 11:10									#77
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quote: Japher: Then speak with the pastor in charge. Tell him you fear people taking your interpretation and tell him exactly what you have told me. In all likelihood, they will change the message if they fear people are having the wrong impression.

That was what I suggested to do first... in not so many words, but I did suggest to address the problem with the pastor before going to the cops.

	18-03-2003 11:18									#78
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Anyone can claim they were inspired by God to write. If they do so, it means you shouldn't believe them; it means that they are loonies. If you think that someone proclaiming himself to be the messiah is crazy, then why believe the bible where someone says he is? Where is the difference here?

	18-03-2003 11:47									#79
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quote: If you think that someone proclaiming himself to be the messiah is crazy, then why believe the bible where someone says he is?

Zevico:

Easter is coming up. Is there demand for a thread titled what's the big deal about Easter?

Japher:

Don't report to the cops if they choose not to change the sign. Your complaint should be enough to make them more careful in the future.

BTW- Luther's big on reading the bible yourself.

We're still feeling the effects of his actions.

If you don't like my explanation, then listen to Christ.

Matthew 13:36-42:

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."

He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

	18-03-2003 16:25									#80
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OK, I'm gonna jump in.

I hate to say it, but I'm not especially tolerant of religious people - especially when they start to push their beliefs.

And why should I? It was the religious who made my early teenage years hell, simply because of what I am and a lot of gay people have to go through that.

It's all very well preaching that you're trying to protect the children from becoming gay but the reality is you're simply punishing the gay children.

Having a 13 year old thinking there's something seriously wrong with him and thinking he's going to hell is ****ed up.

	18-03-2003 21:51									#81
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I find it curious how many of you will demand tolerance and fair treatment of homosexuals, and decry anyone who says anything bad about homosexuality, but then turn around and talk about burning down a sign that says 'don't tolerate something god doesn't condone'. To tell you the truth, if I had seen that sign, homosexuality would NOT have been the first thing to come to mind.

Little bit of a double standard going on, IMO.